Emma Woods’ Sexual Pervert Accusation:
I am a sexual pervert because I asked for her unwashed underpants
Underpants Incident -- 1
Email. April 20, 2005. Emma writes to me about getting DNA from secretions.
“I was also thinking about something that is a bit embarrassing, but I geuss [sic] you will probably be okay with me asking about it. From my memory of it, when the hybrid person had sex with me, they did not pull out before the end, and after they had gone, I wiped myself off with toilet paper. (The scary thing is you can actually see some of the toilet paper on the bed in the unexplained photo, next to the ruler. I had wondered why it was there when I saw it in the photo, and it had been bugging me.) If that memory is accurate, they must be really confident that you won't remember what happened, and do something like freeze the evidence, and get it analysed for DNA, etc.”
Email. April 21, 2005. I write back to her addressing the idea of obtaining the secretions after sex with the hybrid. Of the four abductions we had examined so far, in two of them she told me had sex with hybrids.
“I was going to ask you if there was a discharge of any sort when you got up in the morning. The conversation sort of went past it to the photo and I forgot to ask it. Thanks for reminding me. If this were to happen again and you suspect that the same thing occurred, be sure to save whatever discharge there is and get it absorbed into a tissue or toilet paper or whatever. Put it in a jar and preserve it. I might be able to have it analyzed. Hybrid semen is something we have been trying to get our hands on and it would be a very major event, I think.”
Phone call. May 3, 2005. Emma tells me that there might have been sexual contact with a hybrid and there was a discharge. She was going to use a cotton bud [Q-tip] to absorb it and then she would send it to me. [It might have been said before a session and not recorded.]
“I was also thinking about something that is a bit embarrassing, but I geuss [sic] you will probably be okay with me asking about it. From my memory of it, when the hybrid person had sex with me, they did not pull out before the end, and after they had gone, I wiped myself off with toilet paper. (The scary thing is you can actually see some of the toilet paper on the bed in the unexplained photo, next to the ruler. I had wondered why it was there when I saw it in the photo, and it had been bugging me.) If that memory is accurate, they must be really confident that you won't remember what happened, and do something like freeze the evidence, and get it analysed for DNA, etc.”
Email. April 21, 2005. I write back to her addressing the idea of obtaining the secretions after sex with the hybrid. Of the four abductions we had examined so far, in two of them she told me had sex with hybrids.
“I was going to ask you if there was a discharge of any sort when you got up in the morning. The conversation sort of went past it to the photo and I forgot to ask it. Thanks for reminding me. If this were to happen again and you suspect that the same thing occurred, be sure to save whatever discharge there is and get it absorbed into a tissue or toilet paper or whatever. Put it in a jar and preserve it. I might be able to have it analyzed. Hybrid semen is something we have been trying to get our hands on and it would be a very major event, I think.”
Phone call. May 3, 2005. Emma tells me that there might have been sexual contact with a hybrid and there was a discharge. She was going to use a cotton bud [Q-tip] to absorb it and then she would send it to me. [It might have been said before a session and not recorded.]
Underpants Incident -- 2
Email. October 25, 2005. Emma writes about cotton buds being thrown away.
“I am sorry, but I won't be able to send the cotton bud sample. I think I flushed it down the toilet. I had it on a tissue next to my bed and left it there for a while. I couldn't do anything about it for a while, but some time [sic] after I spoke to you on the phone I thought about it and realised I had a vague memory of flushing the tissue, and Maybe also the cotton bud, down the toilet. I usually throw tissues in the bin, so I went through everything in the bin and it was not there. So I think I must have flushed it. I feel really embarrased [sic] about this, and I am sorry. I went out today and bought a packet of cotton buds which I am now keeping by my bed in case it happens again. I will also put some plastic bags and envelopes by my bed, so if it happens again I can get it ready to post to you immediately. Hopefully that will stop it happening again.”
Email. October 25, 2005. I respond to her.
“No problem. My guess is that this will happen again and then you will be ready for it. It was a brave act to come forward with it in the first place. Emma, you are doing a great job in the face of great difficulties. One cannot maintain constant control over this thing but you are strong willed enough to prevail in the end. I owe you a great debt of gratitude for the tremendous effort you are putting into this research. You have become a serious researcher in this area and have the ability to contribute breakthroughs that few others have. So, don't sweat little setbacks. There will be more opportunities.”
“I am sorry, but I won't be able to send the cotton bud sample. I think I flushed it down the toilet. I had it on a tissue next to my bed and left it there for a while. I couldn't do anything about it for a while, but some time [sic] after I spoke to you on the phone I thought about it and realised I had a vague memory of flushing the tissue, and Maybe also the cotton bud, down the toilet. I usually throw tissues in the bin, so I went through everything in the bin and it was not there. So I think I must have flushed it. I feel really embarrased [sic] about this, and I am sorry. I went out today and bought a packet of cotton buds which I am now keeping by my bed in case it happens again. I will also put some plastic bags and envelopes by my bed, so if it happens again I can get it ready to post to you immediately. Hopefully that will stop it happening again.”
Email. October 25, 2005. I respond to her.
“No problem. My guess is that this will happen again and then you will be ready for it. It was a brave act to come forward with it in the first place. Emma, you are doing a great job in the face of great difficulties. One cannot maintain constant control over this thing but you are strong willed enough to prevail in the end. I owe you a great debt of gratitude for the tremendous effort you are putting into this research. You have become a serious researcher in this area and have the ability to contribute breakthroughs that few others have. So, don't sweat little setbacks. There will be more opportunities.”
Underpants Incident (3)
Email. February 16, 2006. Emma writes that she might have had a sexual encounter with hybrids.
“I think something might have happened last night. At about 11.25 there was another one of those very fast double flashes of white light in the room. I saw it even with the light on. In the early hours I could feel a presence around and felt a bit nervous. I went to bed at 1.35am, but have a vague feeling something happened during the night. Mike said at 2.55am someone knocked loudly on his door, although I did not hear it. I woke up at 7.00am and my pyjama trousers were down around my ankles and my body felt like I had sex. I felt worried about doing the record, so I think I probably had another visit.”
“I think something might have happened last night. At about 11.25 there was another one of those very fast double flashes of white light in the room. I saw it even with the light on. In the early hours I could feel a presence around and felt a bit nervous. I went to bed at 1.35am, but have a vague feeling something happened during the night. Mike said at 2.55am someone knocked loudly on his door, although I did not hear it. I woke up at 7.00am and my pyjama trousers were down around my ankles and my body felt like I had sex. I felt worried about doing the record, so I think I probably had another visit.”
Underpants Incident (4)
Email. February 16, 2006. I respond to Emma about how important it is to get DNA. I wrote:
“Yeah, it does sound like another incident. Of course, if there is any residue from sexual activity, I would be extremely pleased to receive it in the mail. Getting the DNA is not exactly like finding the Holy Grail, but it will add tremendous credibility to everything if we can show anomalies within the DNA.”
“Yeah, it does sound like another incident. Of course, if there is any residue from sexual activity, I would be extremely pleased to receive it in the mail. Getting the DNA is not exactly like finding the Holy Grail, but it will add tremendous credibility to everything if we can show anomalies within the DNA.”
Underpants Incident (5)
20B Hypnosis February 17, 2006. Incident February 16, 2006. Emma has sex with a hybrid. She finds secretions in her underpants. I ask her to send them to me. The hybrids threaten to kill Jacobs (with a stone) and Beth. They order Emma to stop writing her record.
D: Well, before he came over, I mean, you’re lying there on the bed with your shoes off and your pants pulled down? [She had previously indicated this]
E: Yeah. They were off. I took them off. That guy took them off.
D: Oh, they were off. Okay. So, none of them have done any sexual stuff yet, or am I wrong? [In the previous year of the 25 different abductions we examined after her age of 16, she talked about sexual events in 15 of them.]
E: I don’t know.
D: Okay. Now, Emma, were you wearing underpants?
E: Yeah.
D: Did you wash the underpants?
E: Probably. Yeah.
D: Even though it was yesterday?
E: I might not of. I’ll go and look at the laundry. But, I don’t know which ones I had on. I can have a look....
D: Have a look. Put it in a plastic bag if you find the ones.
D: Well, if you can dig up the underpants, without even thinking about it, just put them in a plastic bag, put them in an envelope, and then just send them off to me. That would be greatly appreciated. Do not even think about it. Just do it automatically. No fuss, no muss. And don’t think about it afterwards, either. So, what happens next, then?
D: Well, before he came over, I mean, you’re lying there on the bed with your shoes off and your pants pulled down? [She had previously indicated this]
E: Yeah. They were off. I took them off. That guy took them off.
D: Oh, they were off. Okay. So, none of them have done any sexual stuff yet, or am I wrong? [In the previous year of the 25 different abductions we examined after her age of 16, she talked about sexual events in 15 of them.]
E: I don’t know.
D: Okay. Now, Emma, were you wearing underpants?
E: Yeah.
D: Did you wash the underpants?
E: Probably. Yeah.
D: Even though it was yesterday?
E: I might not of. I’ll go and look at the laundry. But, I don’t know which ones I had on. I can have a look....
D: Have a look. Put it in a plastic bag if you find the ones.
D: Well, if you can dig up the underpants, without even thinking about it, just put them in a plastic bag, put them in an envelope, and then just send them off to me. That would be greatly appreciated. Do not even think about it. Just do it automatically. No fuss, no muss. And don’t think about it afterwards, either. So, what happens next, then?
Underpants Incident (6)
Email. February 20, 2006. Emma says she had washed the knickers [underpants].
“I am not sure what is wrong, but I did the laundry and washed the knickers. I don't know why. I felt really scared when I was going to get them, and I ended up putting them in the machine and doing a load of washing instead. I feel terrible about it.”
“I am not sure what is wrong, but I did the laundry and washed the knickers. I don't know why. I felt really scared when I was going to get them, and I ended up putting them in the machine and doing a load of washing instead. I feel terrible about it.”
Underpants Incident (7)
Email. February 20, 2006. I respond to Emma telling her it is okay.
“Don't worry. I understand that this is a really tough one, but I am sure that one day it will happen. The knickers is obviously of immense importance to us all and (unfortunately) there will probably be more opportunities. Just remember to wear knickers under your pajamas.”
“Don't worry. I understand that this is a really tough one, but I am sure that one day it will happen. The knickers is obviously of immense importance to us all and (unfortunately) there will probably be more opportunities. Just remember to wear knickers under your pajamas.”
Underpants Incident (8)
Email. February 20, 2006. Emma talks about her knickers.
“In the last few months I have regularly woken up with my pyjama trousers pulled down around my knees or ankles. I have been wondering why because it never used to happen regularly like this. When you said to remember to wear knickers under my pyjama trousers I suddenly wondered if that might be why they are being pulled down, so as not to have any residue on them. I wonder if they know that is what I am trying to do and that is why they are doing it. What do you think?”
“In the last few months I have regularly woken up with my pyjama trousers pulled down around my knees or ankles. I have been wondering why because it never used to happen regularly like this. When you said to remember to wear knickers under my pyjama trousers I suddenly wondered if that might be why they are being pulled down, so as not to have any residue on them. I wonder if they know that is what I am trying to do and that is why they are doing it. What do you think?”
Underpants Incident (9)
Email. February 20, 2006. I tell Emma to send me her knickers in an envelope.
“As I remember, you have woken up with your trousers around your knees before you started wearing knickers. I don't think that is the case. However, you do bring up an interesting question: How much deviousness do they have in them that allows them to think through the consequences of secretions? I think that the best thing to do is to get a Bubble pack envelope, address it, and then when the occasion arises, put the knickers in the envelope and seal it before you even think about it.” [Emma never did send any garment]
“As I remember, you have woken up with your trousers around your knees before you started wearing knickers. I don't think that is the case. However, you do bring up an interesting question: How much deviousness do they have in them that allows them to think through the consequences of secretions? I think that the best thing to do is to get a Bubble pack envelope, address it, and then when the occasion arises, put the knickers in the envelope and seal it before you even think about it.” [Emma never did send any garment]
Available for Download in PDF format below:
| ewspa.pdf |
Introduction
The Emma Woods/David Jacobs telephone recordings, that contain Session 20A, Session 20B and Session 20C, were recorded on February 18, 2006. The first file (EW HS 20 Part 1 Uncut.mp3) runs for 3 hours, 26 minutes and 55 seconds. The second file (EW HS 20 Part 2 Uncut.mp3) runs for 1 hour, 45 minutes and 15 seconds. These uncut recordings contain sensitive, unpublicised, private information including people’s real first names, including Emma Woods’ real first name. They also contain details such as certain locations and distances that could be used to identify where Emma Woods lives. It is for these reasons that redacted copies of the uncut recordings have been made with these sensitive pieces of information removed and replaced with a beeping sound. Pseudonyms have been employed in the transcript to protect the identities of others named and locations have been censored.
The first redacted recording (EW HS 20 Part 1 Redacted.mp3) runs for 3 hours, 26 minutes and 57 seconds. This is because a 1 second or less beeping sound was placed at numerous required spots during the recording in order to protect people’s privacy (e.g. real names, certain locations and distances to locations). This factor makes the redacted recording 2 seconds longer than the uncut recording. The first redacted copy of the recording and transcript is presented here publicly for the first time.
The second redacted recording (EW HS 20 Part 2 Redacted.mp3) runs for 1 hour, 45 minutes and 24 seconds. This is because a 1 second or less beeping sound was placed at numerous required spots during the recording in order to protect people’s privacy (e.g. real names, certain locations and distances to locations). This factor makes the redacted recording 9 seconds longer than the uncut recording. The second redacted copy of the recording and transcript is presented here publicly for the first time.
The first redacted recording (EW HS 20 Part 1 Redacted.mp3) runs for 3 hours, 26 minutes and 57 seconds. This is because a 1 second or less beeping sound was placed at numerous required spots during the recording in order to protect people’s privacy (e.g. real names, certain locations and distances to locations). This factor makes the redacted recording 2 seconds longer than the uncut recording. The first redacted copy of the recording and transcript is presented here publicly for the first time.
The second redacted recording (EW HS 20 Part 2 Redacted.mp3) runs for 1 hour, 45 minutes and 24 seconds. This is because a 1 second or less beeping sound was placed at numerous required spots during the recording in order to protect people’s privacy (e.g. real names, certain locations and distances to locations). This factor makes the redacted recording 9 seconds longer than the uncut recording. The second redacted copy of the recording and transcript is presented here publicly for the first time.
Redacted Recording of Emma Woods/David Jacobs
Telephone Session #20A, Session #20B, Session #20C
| ew_hs_20_part_1_redacted_p1.mp3 |
| ew_hs_20_part_1_redacted_p2.mp3 |
| ew_hs_20_part_1_redacted_p3.mp3 |
| ew_hs_20_part_2_redacted.mp3 |
Redacted Transcript of Emma Woods/David Jacobs
Telephone Session #20A, Session #20B, Session #20C
| transcript_20abcpsr.pdf |
Session #20A
D: Now, Emma, in this state of total relaxation, I want to take you back to – I think you said it was around July 21st, 2001, and you were in your room. Is this the same flat you’re in now?
E: Mm…Yeah.
D: Mm Hm…And you sort of were – What were you doing in that time? Was it you just sort of?
E: I was. I was just in my room at night.
D: Mm Hm…
E: Just um…
D: Were watching the television, or were you?
E: Um…I was just sort of like walking. And then like, a light went off.
D: Well, what time is this about?
E: Um…
D: Is it night, or is it morning, or?
E: It was night.
D: Mm Hm…
E: It was sort of late at night, I think.
D: You mean after 11 o’clock at night, or?
E: Mm…No. It was before then.
D: Oh, okay.
E: Um.
D: So, maybe it was 10 o’clock at night or something, or?
E: Um, a little later at night, I suppose. Yeah. Probably something like that.
D: Mm hm.
E: Because I looked, and the lights came on. Like, I looked at the clock. It was like coming up to 11:00, and there was this roaring sound out my window.
D: Well, if the lights came on, and your clock then said 11:00 –
E: It was about ten-to-eleven.
D: Well, is that the time that the lights went out, then?
E: Um, I don’t know why, but I have sort of a strange feeling like they went out at like 9:00 or something, but I don’t know.
D: Okay.
E: It could be my imagination.
D: Well, it certainly is possible. See, because what I’m thinking is that if the lights went off, the clock and the clock doesn’t reset itself to 12:00 or it just blinks -
E: Oh. It’s just a battery clock it’s not working from a power point.
D: Oh, I see. So, the electricity didn’t affect…
E: No.
D: …the clock. I see. Okay, mm hm. So, maybe it was around 9 o’clock then or something like that.
E: Ah the clock said about ten-to-eleven when the light, when the light came on because I felt kind of odd that it had gone out. Because it wasn’t, because it didn’t just flicker. It went out. The room went dark.
D: Mm hm.
E: It went out. I feel like my brain is kind of fighting against it like, it doesn’t want to know or something.
D: Right. Well, mm, yeah, but you do, and you’ll be able to remember it. You’ll find that it’s, it’s accessible. Well, before the lights went off, you were sort of, you said, walking in your room, or standing, or?
E: I think I was going to walk towards the kitchen or something. I was walking…
D: Mm hm.
E: …in that direction.
D: Okay. Now, you have your normal, evening clothes on your?
E: Yeah.
D: You’re wearing pajamas, or you’re wearing?
E: Um…I had a skirt on and a top. But, I often wore those to bed.
D: Oh, I see. Okay. Now it’s, it’s cold outside, is it? It’s July. It’s?
E: Um…It wasn’t really cold.
D: Okay. So, you start heading towards the kitchen. Now, is the light off, or, or is the light on in the kitchen?
E: Um…I don’t know because I didn’t get that far. I just, I was walking in my room. The light was on in my room…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and then the light went off.
D: Okay.
E: I think the light went off. It did go off.
D: Uh huh.
E: But, I’m not sure if it went off then or whether it went off later.
D: I see. Okay. Well, let’s just sort of situate though, you, though, in terms of walking…
E: I was walking towards…
D: …into the kitchen.
E: …the door. I was walking towards the doorway.
D: Mm hm. What I’m just asking is was, you know – Normally, would you have the light on in the kitchen, or did you turn it on?
E: No, I normally turn it on.
D: I see, mm hm.
E: I don’t think I actually made it to the kitchen.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t remember going in there. I think I was just going to go there.
D: Okay. Well, where are you? In other words, in 2001, where was your bed in the room?
E: Um, where it is now, which is on the other side of the room from the window.
D: Right, mm hm. So, have you passed the bed on your way to?
E: No. I was walking towards it.
D: Okay. So, you’re sort of walking towards the bed.
E: I think there was some people there.
D: In front of you, or side of you, or behind you, or?
E: Yeah. It was in front. I just see a vague memory of some people being – I think I stopped…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and like some people came because I can remember them standing near the end of the bed.
D: Oh. So, they were – If you were to keep walking, they’d be blocking your pathway, then.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Um.
E: There was like two people.
D: Two people? They small? They large?
E: Yeah.
D: They medium?
E: Normal, human-looking size.
D: I’m, I’m sorry?
E: They had clothes on.
D: A couple of human-looking people?
E: Yeah.
D: You recognize them, or?
E: I was looking down because I just saw they had these white tops on. I saw that.
D: Mm hm.
E: Uh
D: They were wearing pants or, of some sort, or?
E: Um. I’m finding it really hard to remember. I can just remember seeing the arm of one of them coming up.
D: Mm.
E: Like, I was looking down, and I saw the arm because they – I think they came and took me by the arm or something.
D: I see. Well, when you saw was – These were two males, or females, or male and female, or?
E: Uh, I think - They were two males, I think, because they had the same – Yeah, it was that guy that I know.
D: So, he was a familiar one?
E: Yeah.
D: Is this the one you’ve known for a long, long time?
E: Yeah, and another one with him.
D: Okay, now when you…
E: He had like a shirt – They had these like white tops on.
D: Long-sleeve, or short-sleeve, or?
E: It was long-sleeve.
D: I see, mm hm. Were they pullover, or do they have buttons, or?
E: They looked like buttons, and they had trousers on. They were like normal clothes.
D: Just regular clothes. Okay.
E: Yeah.
D: So, do they say anything to you when they see you, or?
E: Mm, I can remember that guy looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: I mainly remember them taking me outside.
D: I’m sorry. They, they say they’re going to, or?
E: I think that I go outside or something.
D: Oh. You go outside. Okay.
E: I’m not sure, but – Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Now, when you look at him and you realize, “Oh this is so and so,” does a name pop into your mind or not?
E: Mm…No.
D: Okay. Now is, the guy who’s with him there…
E: Mm.
D: …is this a different guy than the one you’ve seen in recent years, or?
E: Yeah.
D: It’s a different one. So, it’s not the –
E: Yeah. A different guy. A different one.
D: It’s, it’s not the same one?
E: No.
D: Okay, and is he older or younger than, than your friend, or?
E: Uh I think he was a bit younger.
D: Mm hm. Okay.
E: I’d say he’s like in his thirties or something.
D: Okay.
E: He’s got like staring eyes.
D: Scary eyes?
E: Staring.
D: Oh. Staring. Yeah. So, they, they sort of grab your arm or something like that, do they, or?
E: Yeah. He came up. He’s pulling my arm.
D: Mm hm, then what happens next, then?
E: I was going to go to the kitchen, but I think they just took me to by the window.
D: By the window?
E: I don’t know. I can’t remember. I just vaguely remember the window.
D: Mm hm. Okay. That’s fine. Sure. Do they say anything? I mean, do you get a sense of communication from them?
E: Yeah. I’m not sure – Yeah. But, I’m finding it really hard to remember what it – I can remember his eyes looking at me, saying something, but I can’t really remember.
D: Mm. Okay.
E: Come to take me somewhere.
D: Oh, I see. Okay. So, they take you over by the window.
E: Um, it’s funny, but I also get a feeling of maybe, maybe that was later.
D: Oh, okay. What do they do first, then?
E: Uh, maybe we went out the door. I don’t know. I’m kind of confused. I think we went by the door. The front door.
D: Out the front door? Okay. It’s dark outside, I assume, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Do you see anybody you know out there? I mean, is –
E: Um, no.
D: Okay. And you’re just sort of standing right outside the door, or do you…
E: Um.
D: …you walk?
E: I have a feeling that we went down the stairs and like around the back right by the car park.
D: Oh I see okay.
E: There’s no light when we’re walking around on the ground in this sort of place. It’s dark.
D: So, there’s no lights on out there?
E: No. Not out the back.
D: I see. Well I…
E: I think there’s some people out in the back, like in the car park.
D: Mm hm.
E: Some short people there.
D: Oh. I get it. Okay. Are they anywhere near the cars, you mean, or are they?
E: They’re kind of in the middle area. The open area.
D: Mm hm. How many of the short people are out there?
E: Maybe about – Quite a lot. Like, five, or six, or something.
D: Oh okay.
E: I do see some people there. I wonder if they’ve got someone else there.
D: This a neighbor of yours, you mean, or?
E: I’m not sure, but I think there were some human-sized people, and there now are a lot of little people as well.
D: Oh, okay. So do they, do you walk up towards them, you mean, or?
E: Yeah. Like, they were spread out. Like, some of them are up by the fence, and some of them were closer to where we were.
D: Mm hm. Male or female um human ones, or?
E: I’m not sure because they were further down. I think some people came down the tunnel after me.
D: Mm hm.
E: They’re bringing someone down.
D: So, when they bring him over towards where you’re standing, can you see who that is?
E: Mm…I’m not sure because it’s dark.
D: Yeah.
E: I think they had like three of us there. There was a guy, and then there was me, and then there was this other guy.
D: I see. Okay. (pause)
E: I don’t know why, but I kind of remember this cat walking past or something.
D: The cat walking past the – Is the cat paying any attention to what was going on (laughs)?
E: No. It just kind of look - It kind of didn’t look comfortable, but it was alright.
D: Mm hm. So, what happens next, then?
E: There was like light. I saw the building. I was standing, facing the building and the light on the building. It was lit-up.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think there was something there.
D: Something up there?
E: Yeah. (pause) I think some of those people are going up.
D: Mm hm.
E: I could see one of those human-looking people looking at me.
D: One of the – You mean one of the hybrids?
E: Yeah.
D: Well, well I’m a little confused. There were two hybrids who came into your –
E: Yeah.
D: You mean it’s one of them that’s staring at you?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh, oh I’m sorry. Okay. So, it was – Which one do you think it was, then?
E: It was the other one. Not the normal one.
D: Yeah oh. The younger one.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Now, where are you when he’s staring at you?
E: He’s standing at the edge of the car park.
D: I see. So he’s, does he say anything to you while he’s looking?
E: No, because he was a bit, a bit away. He wasn’t like up close.
D: Oh I see. Mm hm.
E: I can remember walking, it was in one of those places. Going in this room.
D: Well, before that happens, do you get a sense of, of going in, going towards this light or anything like that, or?
E: I can remember like a little light around me.
D: Mm hm.
E: It didn’t feel very good.
D: Okay.
E: I don’t know why, but I keep remembering seeing this cat like walking past.
D: Mm. Though, the cat wasn’t scared, though, and –
E: He kind of walked past when I was standing by the car park.
D: Yeah.
E: He walked past. Yeah. He didn’t look comfortable.
D: I wonder if the cat realized that there was, this was not what’s supposed to happen.
E: Mm.
D: So, what’s the next thing you sort of remember, then? I mean –
E: Walking. We’re just in this place, and there were like a lot of people there.
D: Mm hm. Now, when you walk into this place…
E: Yeah.
D: …are you sort of walking on, on mass with the other?
E: Not like packed in, but they’re kind of around as well.
D: Mm hm.
E: There were quite a few people in this room.
D: Well, the ones who you came in with, though,
E: Yeah.
D: …the other two…
E: Yeah.
D: …can you get a look at them by any chance, or?
E: Yeah. It’s like I don’t want to see them, eh?
D: Hm…Are they familiar at all do you think, or?
E: Uh…I think so. But I think I don’t want to know. I think maybe, yeah.
D: You mean it might be somebody who’s a friend of yours, or?
E: I don’t know. I just – I can remember seeing this person in like a pair of trousers, but it’s like I don’t want to remember anything else.
D: Mm…Are they from your house, do you think? I mean, from your apartment complex, your building. Or from across the street, or next to it or something, or?
E: I think one of them might have been in the building next door.
D: Hm, oh I see.
E: I think one of them might’ve been from my building.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know. I don’t want to – I don’t think I want to know.
D: Well, if you know, you know. If you don’t, you don’t. You know what I mean it’s? It’s, it’s something that you can’t not know. If you do know it, you can…
E: Yeah.
D: …choose not to remember it. But, then again, it might be helpful to, to know sort of, who else might be involved because of what, what events have happened recently in terms of telling you, you know, “Pay no attention to anybody who moves in the house.” I mean, “In the, in the building.”
E: Yeah. One of them might have been the guy who was in – Like, on the other end. That other guy, I think, was from the building next door.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think I know who they are, but it just makes me feel really horrible.
D: Why do you think that is?
E: I don’t know.
D: Because you have to remember that if they’re in the process of having these experiences, they’ve had them since they were children...
E: Yeah.
D: …and uh…and it does – Suddenly, suddenly you know, if you recognize them, and yet they’re still living around you, then –
E: One of them is, and one of them’s moved.
D: Well, the one that’s moved, is he the one who comes around every once in a while?
E: Yeah.
D: So, he’s your, your friend.
E: He’s kind of a friend. Like, we don’t like socialize or go out together and that, but he comes back and visits me sometimes.
D: Mm hm.
E: He just appears and.
D: Well, he’s drawn to, to you…
E: Yeah.
D: …and he probably somewhere doesn’t know why, or how, or what, but he probably feels that he has a connection to you in some way.
E: Yeah. That’s probably true.
D: You have to remember, in one sense, you’re, you’re sort of lucky in that you know what is happening, and you know is happening to other people as well...
E: Yeah.
D: …and therefore you can react in a way that’s appropriate to the situation…
E: Mm.
D: …whereas they can only act on this unconscious level…
E: Mm.
D: …which they might even interpret as instinctual or something like that. But, but they can act, they can only act with lack of knowledge.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, so it is good to know, actually.
E: The other guy always looks at me. Because I can see him kind of looking at me when I see him on the street. Like, we’ve never spoken or anything, but – His mother. He lives with his mother, and his mother always glares at me.
D: Mm…Well.
E: She probably – If she is his mother –
D: Well, you don’t know whether it came down through the mother or the father, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: But, if she glares at you too…
E: Yeah.
D: …then, who, well, who knows what’s in her mind? (laughs) But um, but, but it certainly is possible. It certainly is possible.
E: Mm.
D: And um this is what’s called working a neighborhood.
E: Right.
D: And this happens quite often where…
E: Really?
D: …they’ll take a whole bunch of people from the neighborhood. Yeah.
E: Right.
D: The first time I encountered this was maybe fifteen years ago, eighteen years ago or something like that when…
E: Right.
D: …this guy was abducted from his house and floated up towards this object. And then, he could see his neighbors from his houses around him floating up.
E: Right.
D: And there was this woman who lived, you know, who across the street, or next to her or whatever it is, Mrs. So and So who was…
E: Yeah.
D: …an elderly woman, who was coming onboard, too, and all that. And he was sort of amazed.
E: Yeah.
D: And then, when he went back down, he could, he could see people, more people coming up from this sort of…
E: From the sky.
D: …track of homes he lived in…
E: Yeah.
D: …and you could tell that they were working the neighborhood, you know?
E: Right. That was there, and that must’ve been in our street too?
D: Well, I’ll tell you, though, it’s, it’s you have to remember the numbers are so large in this phenomenon that you could…
E: Yeah.
D: …almost pick any street, and…
E: Yeah.
D: … there’s going to be enough people in there…
E: Yeah.
D: …to make it worth their while to work the neighborhood, you know?
E: Yeah. I couldn’t see Matt there. Maybe Matt’s not –
D: You never know.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, it could be that they did something with Matt the day before, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: And the fact that he is hearing these knockings and things happen to him and all this other mysterious stuff…
E: Mm.
D: …you see, in my world, mysterious things don’t happen.
E: Yeah.
D: Things happen that you don’t know the origin of. That’s all.
E: Mm.
D: …and uh, and if you’ve had any abduction experiences, it answers ninety nine percent of those questions.
E: Yeah.
D: So um, so it’s this guy who, who comes around every once in a while…
E: Mm.
D: …and uh, and a guy next door, perhaps, you know, who you see from time to time.
E: Mm.
D: So, are there any other people in there? I mean, is it just the, just the three of you, or?
E: Um, I think there probably are because there seemed to be quite a lot of people.
D: Yeah. Hm. Probably from maybe a block away. Probably from…
E: Right.
D: …down your street or somewhere, something like that.
E: Yeah.
D: Have they all gotten there about the same time, you think, or are they in different? Are some just about to leave?
E: Some were like already there. I think we kind of went in more or less together, but the others were like already there.
D: Mm hm. Okay. So, what happens next, then?
E: There’s some gray people around me, and they’re kind of all over the place. Like, lots of them. And the light is quite bright.
D: Mm hm.
E: And I have to like, and I have to like take my clothes off.
D: Okay.
E: I take them off. I had to sit down on this thing like a bench.
D: Mm hm.
E: A seat. I could see the people walking around.
D: Yeah.
E: Some of those people came and got me. Like, these gray people. They made me stand up.
D: I see.
E: We’re just going to go out of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: There are a lot of people walking in the passage. Like, there was some people walking in front of me.
D: Oh. So, they’re not taking you out sort of one, then later, another one. There’s sort of a group type thing, almost.
E: There was one person in front of me, and then there was somebody coming down the other way. But, there was also like these gray people…
D: Mm hm.
E: …as well. (pause) Then I went in this room. There was a whole lot of tables.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was on this table.
D: You, you said there’s a large number of tables?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. How many tables do you think, do you think there are?
E: I’m not sure because I couldn’t see the whole room, but there’d be like tens of them.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I maybe saw about twenty, but I think there could’ve been more because I didn’t see the whole room. I didn’t feel like I remembered the whole room.
D: Okay.
E: It looked like a laboratory or something. It was big.
D: Hm.
E: (pause) I was lying on my side on this table. They’re kind of like pushing. I can remember their hands on me though. Like, they turn me on my side or something.
D: Hm…Your right side, or your left side, or?
E: My left side.
D: I see. Well, are you, are you sort of in the middle of the tables, or off to the side of the tables, or - ?
E: I was kind of in the middle part somewhere. They were around…
D: Mm hm.
E: …the middle.
D: Do you see anybody else on any of the other tables around there, or?
E: Mm, Yeah. There are quite a few people.
D: See your neighbors over there anywhere, or?
E: I didn’t really notice.
D: Okay.
E: There’s one of those taller people was there. He had like a top, he had like clothes on. Like a fitted top on.
D: Hm. Okay. Well, they turned you on your side.
E: Mm.
D: Are they looking at your back, do you mean, or are they looking at your side…
E: Yeah.
D: …or?
E: Yeah. They were looking at my back. They’ve got my, they’ve got my head and my back.
D: Mm hm.
E: They put me back on my back.
D: Well, when they look at your back, do they just sort of poke around there, or do they, they look at your shoulders, or your?
E: They’re looking at my kind of spine, I think.
D: I see.
E: I can feel like touching all down my spine.
D: Mm hm. I see.
E: Yeah. The guy was looking in my eyes.
D: Mm hm. Now, is this, this the, a gray guy, or a?
E: He was a taller guy.
D: Tall human-like one or a…
E: No.
D: …tall gray guy?
E: A tall gray guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t see the human one.
D: Okay. Now, in –
E: They’re going to do something gynecological because they were doing something with my legs. There was other guys.
D: They, you mean, they’re pulling, putting them up, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Are there, are there like things like stirrups there, or are there, or are?
E: I don’t know, but I think there was something like that. Yeah.
D: Oh, I see. I, I didn’t want to put anything in your mind.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what’s he sort of doing when, when he’s staring in there?
E: I don’t, don’t know. I can remember seeing a white room around and that, and then they were doing that.
D: Mm hm. Well is…
E: I think I could see the white room because I could see them doing stuff to my legs.
D: Yeah.
E: I must’ve been – The wall must’ve been – I probably wasn’t that far away from the wall because I could see the wall past the end of the table.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, there were a lot of other tables around.
D: Yeah. And you’re sort of in the middle of them, in a sense.
E: Yeah, but kind of towards the edge by the end.
D: I see. Mm hm. So, he’s kind of staring at you.
E: Mm hm. I guess it was the usual thing that they do.
D: You mean sexual arousal business?
E: I don’t know. Yeah. Probably. I don’t remember a lot about what they actually did. I can remember them with some instrument or bringing something over.
D: Well, the sexual arousal business – Once again I’m, uh I’m going to have to ask these embarrassing questions, although I’ve already done it so many times that…
E: Mm.
D: …that, yeah, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s just something that I’ve just got to keep doing. Sexual arousal. How high up does it go?
E: Hm. Um. (pause) It’s kind of strange, but kind of – I don’t know if I’m really remembering it right, but I can remember like being like almost kind of orgasmic, but like for a long time. (laughs)
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know if that’s really real or what, but –
D: But, it doesn’t just go up to a plateau and then just stay at the plateau, or does it go all the way up to being orgasmic and stay at that, at that level?
E: Maybe like just before.
D: Okay.
E: Like, kind of like – Yeah. But I don’t know. I’m so embarrassed by it.
D: You shouldn’t really be embarrassed by this. I mean, I hear this almost every time, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: But, once again, depending on how high up the sexual feelings going, goes, this is uh you can tell what procedures are going to follow next.
E: Hm.
D: That’s why, that’s why I keep asking that question.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what sort of happens, then, when you – When he pulls away…
E: Mm.
D: …what happens next, then?
E: I think I had like quite strong, sexual feelings at that point…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and like I think it was that it was – Somebody was – I think they had some kind of instrument or something. But, I don’t, I don’t really remember it very well.
D: Okay.
E: But I don’t know whether I saw that before or. I’m not quite sure exactly when I saw that, but I did see somebody there. It was like one of the humans person because it wasn’t a gray person.
D: Mm hm. Now, this is a regular human person?
E: Yeah.
D: Without any –
E: It might’ve been one of those people because they had on like a white shirt.
D: Oh. So, he’s dressed, though.
E: Yeah.
D: So, it’s a human-like person.
E: Yeah. I think they did something. I don’t think it was gray – The taller – I think he kind of went there, but the other one did it. I don’t know. I seem to remember them like taking stuff away.
D: But, you, you say they used instruments for this?
E: I can. I can remember seeing someone holding something there.
D: Mm hm.
E: I actually think it was an instrument.
D: And they did something internally at that point. You get a sense that they were taking something out, putting something in? I mean –
E: I don’t have any sense of that at all.
D: Okay.
E: I can remember seeing someone walking away, holding something. It might’ve been an instrument. I don’t know what it was.
D: Mm hm. Okay.
E: I don’t know.
D: Well, was he holding it in two hands or one hand?
E: Two hands.
D: Okay.
E: It was a gray, a little gray one.
D: Mm hm.
E: I can remember like an uncomfortable feeling.
D: You mean uncomfortable in terms of painful, or?
E: Um yeah. Kind of like slightly pressure, but not, not painful, painful, but kind of uncomfortable.
D: Mm hm. This does not sound like an egg-taking incident.
E: Alright.
D: It might be, though. It does sound like something a little different, however.
E: Alright.
D: So, what’s the hybrid doing? What’s he?
E: Um, he’s doing something internally. The uncomfortable feeling was, it was vaginal. It wasn’t really abdominal.
D: Yeah. Vaginal discomfort. Not – Wasn’t uterine…
E: Mm.
D: …or abdominal. Usually when, when, when an egg is taken, people will feel a twinge…
E: Mm.
D: …and it’s off to the side somewhere. Left to right side, you know?
E: No. I don’t think it was that.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t remember that.
D: Um. However, the fact that he’s holding something with two hands…
E: Right.
D: …that’s, that’s important for me, I think.
E: Oh okay.
D: So, but, it’s interesting that the hybrid is, is, is, was – I’m not sure. The hybrid did something, and then, the smaller gray went away holding something with two hands.
E: Mm.
D: Is –
E: Yeah, yeah but the other taller gray guy was also down there. I don’t, I think the hybrids did it. I can remember seeing the hybrid standing there, holding this instrument, and I think that they did it. It’s like felt, yeah. I don’t know.
D: Yeah. That certainly is possible. Mm hm.
E: The taller gray one was communicating with the, the hybrid one.
D: Can you kind of pick up on their conversation a little bit?
E: Um, I’m not sure, but I can remember seeing his eyes looking quite strongly at the hybrid one. It was kind the way that – The same thing.
D: Yeah. So, you can’t kind of tap into that, or - ?
E: Um. No.
D: Okay.
E: I think it might’ve been something about what he was doing.
D: Mm.
E: He was telling him something. (pause) I remember, I remember this like little, short gray person looking at me at the side of the table.
D: You mean looking at…
E: He came up…
D: Mm mm.
E: …on the top of the table. He was looking.
D: Looking at your, at your face, you mean, or looking at?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh. Okay. Is he saying anything to you, or?
E: Um, he’s just kind of like – I think he put his hand on the front of my neck or something, and then he went, went away or something. I don’t know.
D: Mm. Okay.
E: (pause) I think they were going to take my legs out of those things.
D: Mm hm.
E: And the taller gray one was walking away.
D: The taller gray one is walking away, did you say?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: I was sitting up.
D: Are they helping you up, or do you just sort of get up by yourself?
E: The gray person had come around the table. I didn’t feel very good.
D: Mm hm.
E: Then, I get off the table. I still didn’t – I still felt uncomfortable.
D: You mean you’re still, still hurting, or?
E: I was just kind of uncomfortable a bit, but not much.
D: Mm hm.
E: There were like heaps of people in the room.
D: You can see them when you stand up there?
E: Yeah. I can see this guy lying on the table.
D: They doing anything with him, or?
E: Yeah. They’re just kind of around. Like, somehow, I think I just went out the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: I seem to remember somebody looking at me. I think it was one of those hybrid people.
D: Mm hm. I’ll just change these tapes here for a second. (changes tapes) Sorry about that. (pause) So, you’re walking out the room with, with a smaller gray, did you say…
E: Mm.
D: …or with a hybrid guy, or?
E: Not sure. I can remember – My memory is kind of all jumbled. I can remember seeing the face of this hybrid person looking at me. But, I can also kind of remember the eye. I can remember the face of the other tall gray person looking at me as well. I don’t know.
D: While you’re standing there, you mean?
E: No. No. At some point, I just remember seeing his face.
D: Mm hm. When you, you get off the table, and there’s a lot of people around and…
E: Yeah.
D: …you can see people lying on the tables…
E: Yeah.
D: …and see these other people, gray guys or whatever, working on them.
E: Yeah.
D: You see your neighbor anywhere or friend?
E: Uh, I didn’t recognize anybody, but um maybe I wouldn’t because I don’t really see that well. But, I just see that there were people there.
D: Yeah. Mm hm. Is this when somebody comes up to, to kind of stare at you a little bit, or?
E: I just seem to remember that gray guy’s face.
D: Yeah.
E: I was seeing him.
D: Okay. Well, when he looks at you, does he communicate with you, or?
E: Um, he was standing a little bit away from me. Like, I think I was – I think they took me to one of the tables because I saw him on the other side of the table.
D: They took you to another table?
E: Yeah.
D: Now, here comes an embarrassing question again.
E: Mm.
D: That sexual feeling that you had, is that still there or is that gone?
E: It’s kind of gone.
D: Oh, okay. Mm hm. So, they take you over to that, another table. Is this, is this an empty table or, or not?
E: No. There was this guy on it.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think it’s one of those things I had to do something.
D: Okay. Now, the guy on it, is he, he a person who’s familiar with you, to you, or?
E: Um, I don’t know, but I don’t think so.
D: Okay. What do they sort of want you to do, then?
E: Um, they kind of like – I was standing at the side, and they were like around me.
D: Mm hm.
E: And that other guy was like on the other side, looking.
D: Okay.
E: I think I had to do – I had to do like – I think that I did oral sex on that, on that guy.
D: Mm hm. Now, Emma, this is a, this is a sperm collection procedure. This is not a sexual thing. Remember that.
E: Yeah.
D: This an older guy, or a younger guy, or?
E: I don’t know. I don’t think I actually saw the person. I don’t know. Maybe – I don’t know. Middle, middle-aged? (pause)
D: I see. Mm hm. So, they have you do that, do they?
E: Yeah.
D: Is this from the side or, or do they, or is it from?
E: Yeah. It’s from the side.
D: I see. Okay. Now, the question, then, is what happens just as he’s about to ejaculate?
E: They’re like pulling me away.
D: What do they do with him?
E: There’s this gray person. Uh, I’m not sure because they pulled my head away, and then like I saw this gray person. One of the short people.
D: Mm hm.
E: And they were like taking me away.
D: Oh I see.
E: I don’t know. I don’t remember. I don’t see it, I think. I’m not sure.
D: Okay. Why they have people do this, I, I just don’t, I don’t understand. I think it, it has to do with failure to get the sperm any other way, I guess.
E: Mm.
D: Um. But, it has everything to do with the guy, getting the sperm, and using the woman to, to do it. I’ve seen this a lot of times. Lots and lots of times.
E: Mm.
D: It’s not unusual, unfortunately.
E: Yeah.
D: But, you can’t take this to heart, and you can’t, you can’t be embarrassed by this. And, you know, this is not, this is not something you just do to strange guys laying there. I mean it’s not…
E: Mm.
D: …not something anybody does. I imagine this is not a normal situation. And everything is controlled, and everything is for a reason, and this is not a sexual act in terms of a, an emotionally-involved, romantic event or anything like that kind of situation. This is mechanics.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, they take you away. You don’t get a chance to see them collecting the sperm?
E: No, because they’re pulling – They turn me. I was walking. I was going away.
D: Mm hm. Well, when they pull you away from him, do they say anything, or do they just grab you?
E: They just grabbed my head, pulled me away.
D: I see. Is it relatively quick, or is it slow, or?
E: Yeah. Quite quick.
D: I see. Mm hm. So, they know that exact point, I guess.
E: Yeah. Probably.
D: Which means automatically that they’re monitoring his nervous system.
E: Yeah.
D: How they can do that, I don’t know, but.
E: Yeah.
D: I don’t know. Did you notice – Were they staring at him while this was happening?
E: Uh, I’m not sure, but that taller grey guy was up where, by his head, even like when I was looking at him. So, they could’ve been.
D: Do you think maybe they could tell by change in blood pressure, or they could change by – You know what I mean? I mean, maybe they could tell by some other way.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm, extremely common.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s not unusual. So, they take you away from him, and…
E: Mm.
D: …where do they take you next, then?
E: Took me down by these tables…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and this gray guy was with me.
D: Okay.
E: He took me around. I think they’re going to take me by this other table.
D: I see, okay.
E: God. I don’t know. I just hope this isn’t my imagination, eh?
D: Well, if it’s yours it’s, it’s the imagination, then, of a woman who’s studying to be a priest right now…
E: (laughs)
D: …and it’s the imagination of a whole bunch of other people too, all of which think it was pretty awful. (laughs)
E: Mm hm.
D: Not something women normally imagine. You know what I mean? As…
E: Mm hm.
D: …as something that is not good. If you’re going to imagine it, you’d be imagining it as good.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: But, this is in the not good category.
E: Mm hm.
D: And usually, when people fantasize about such things, they fantasize with an, with an object of fantasy…
E: Mm.
D: …as opposed to some strange, middle-age, middle-aged guy lying on a table onboard a UFO. That would not be…
E: (laughs) No.
D: …a standard scenario, you know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: So, um they take you over to another one?
E: Mm hm.
D: This an older guy, or a younger guy, or?
E: Um, he was a bit older than the other one.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Now, does this, does this guy look familiar at all, or?
E: Um No.
D: Okay. Do they seem out of it? Do they seem alert?
E: No. They’re not moving. They’re just kind of like lying there.
D: Mm hm.
E: Not saying anything.
D: Now, here’s an odd question.
E: Mm.
D: Where, where are their legs? Are their legs straight out? Are they on the table? Are they hanging off the table, or?
E: They’re just sort of lying on the table.
D: Okay. Mm hm. So, they have you do this again, do they, or?
E: Mm hm.
D: Once again, when they, when they sort of pull you off of him, can you kind of see what they, what they do to him, then? (pause)
E: Um, I think they did have something there, but I don’t remember it so much. I was looking – Like, I saw him, but they did have something there. It was like attached to something.
D: Hm. I see. Okay. Once again, they knew, I assume – I’m just, I’m just saying this and you’re not, so I have to be careful here. But, they knew when to pull you off, in a sense.
E: Yeah. And then they put something there kind of by – I don’t know. Yeah.
D: Hm.
E: They’re taking me away.
D: Mm hm.
E: It was attached to something. It had like a, a rope or something. A cord or something.
D: Oh. I see what you mean. Okay. Right. Yeah. (pause) Are they taking you somewhere else now, or?
E: I just kind of go out. We’re in a passage.
D: They take you into a passage, did you say?
E: Yeah.
D: So, there’s no third guy, then?
E: I don’t know.
D: Or might there be?
E: I don’t know. I think wanted, I just really wanted to go out. I don’t know. Yeah. I went out. I did go out in the passage.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Do they say anything to you? Are they pleased? Are they?
E: Not really. No. I was walking.
D: It’s almost as if they do not have all the equipment that they need to just artificially get the sperm, so they use woman to do it.
E: Alright.
D: And um it works just as well for them. They don’t have to keep the equipment onboard.
E: Oh yeah. Yeah.
D: You know, now, if it’s just one table, they’ll have the equipment. They’ll have the thing. But, but they have it…
E: Yeah.
D: …for like twenty or thirty – That’s a whole another – I just think it’s a matter…
E: Mm.
D: …of efficiency for them.
E: And if they know that they’re going to be taking women as well, they don’t bother.
D: Yeah. Yeah. It’s all – I mean, I’ve seen this happen so many times that you, you, you just know it’s part of the deal. It’s part of the plan. It’s part, it’s just a matter of, like I said, efficiency.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s all about getting the sperm.
E: Yeah. I think there was a third one. I just couldn’t take it.
D: Well, the only thing that I would be interested in for the third one whether it was anybody you knew, you know?
E: I don’t think so.
D: Because if it was, then you’d have this – Obviously, there’d be even greater reason for them to, to look. But, the point is that they may not even see you.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, they might just be looking up, with their eyes closed, or whatever it is, and they’re, they’re not.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, sometimes they do see you and, and, and they think, as usual…
E: Mm.
D: …“That woman really looks out of it”
E: Out of it yeah.
D: As you look over at the guy who seems to be completely out of it also, laying there.
E: Mm.
D: So, you always have to keep that in mind that they’re, that they’re, they’re, they’re making a judgment. And the judgment is, “That poor woman is really under their spell,” basically.
E: Right. Yeah. God. That’s interesting. But, even though you can like move around. Yeah.
D: They, yeah. They know, they know, they. It’s hard to describe how much they know is happening.
E: Mm.
D: If sperm is being taken from them, sometimes they know that something is being, if it’s a mechanical device, something is being attached to their penis. But, then they, then they know that something is being drawn from it, and they just assume, “Oh. They must be taking sperm.”
E: Yeah.
D: But they’re, but they’re not. But sometimes it happens, and they don’t actually ejaculate. I mean, they don’t actually have an orgasm. It’s just sort of withdrawn in an odd way.
E: Right.
D: Um, uh when there’s a woman engaged, it’s usually oral sex or just sort of getting on top of the guy who’s lying on the table.
E: Yeah.
D: And then they have all these very, very conflicted feelings about…
E: Yeah.
D: …how it’s, how it’s terrible, and it’s awful, and yet you know they have these positive feelings about it because they have to. Otherwise, they can’t…
E: Mm.
D: …they can’t sustain an erection and all that because it’s been put in their minds. They’ve, they’ve already been prepared, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: And um so uh it’s, it’s a conflicting thing because they themselves sometimes get involved up with sexual feelings, and, of course, women sometimes get involved with sexual feelings and all that. And, and ultimately, as I said, it’s, it’s just a mechanical thing to get the sperm. That’s all these beings care about. They don’t care about anything else. They couldn’t care less about anything else that’s going on. Everything is geared towards getting the sperm. That’s the whole point.
E: Yeah.
D: But um, but, then, you know, if this goes on long enough over long enough periods of time, as I said before, it affects both men and woman.
E: Yeah.
D: And sometimes, it affects them negatively in their normal lives, and sometimes it affects them uh in ways that are surprising, and then sometimes, it doesn’t affect them.
E: Yeah. Do you think it’s a memory? If you remember, it affects you, and if you don’t, it doesn’t? Or, do you think it will affect you anyway, or - ?
D: I think it affects you more if you don’t remember it…
E: Why?
D: …because then you can’t process it properly…
E: Yeah.
D: …and, and you don’t know why you feel the way you do. You just do.
E: Yeah.
D: Whereas if you know what’s happening and you know, then, you can sort of relate it to, “Now I know why I feel this way. Now I know why I feel that way.” And then, and then you can take steps psychologically to deal with it and, and overcome whatever, whatever problem it might’ve caused. Now, it may not have caused a problem.
E: Yeah.
D: But, if it did, there’s no way to deal with it. There’s just, it just lays there, you know, in, in, in your mind, and, and that’s, that’s a problem. That can be a problem. In this situation, I think it is better to know than not to know.
E: Yeah. You’re right. Yeah.
D: Because this really does affect your personal life on a very deep level.
E: Yeah.
D: Now…
E: Right.
D: …less so when you’re older.
E: Right.
D: But, supposing this is happening when you’re an adolescent?
E: Mm.
D: …or when you’re in your early twenties, then it, then you know it has, it has a greater impact…
E: Mm.
D: …and so. Because you’re still sort of in informative years.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, I must say that I have not seen adolescent girls do this yet.
E: Mm.
D: Most of the time, it’s, it’s, it’s more, it’s, it’s women, it’s women passed the age of twenty one, or twenty two, or whatever it is.
E: Maybe they think it – Maybe it damages? I don’t know. It’s interesting.
D: Who knows? It just might be because my population is too small.
E: Yeah.
D: I just do not think of them of, of, of being concerned about whether it damages…
E: No.
D: …people or not. No. Do you have to call me back in a second?
E: Yeah. I do. Can I, can I just take five minutes?
D: Yes. Why don’t you take eight minutes?
E: (laughs)
D: And the reason I’m going to say that is that we’ll pick up right where you left off. I’m going to look up the very first time that I heard this and see how old she was.
E: Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay.
D: Okay. Talk to you in a few minutes.
E: Okay.
D: Bye. (long pause) Hello?
E: Hi.
D: Okay. Well, I couldn’t quite find it. I, I think she was actually in her thirties. (laughs)
E: (laughs)
D: So, um is the connection okay?
E: Uh yeah. Is it okay with you?
D: Yeah. Mm hm.
E: Yeah. Cool.
D: Hang on a second. I’m just going to rewind a little bit of this just because I think it was on, and it shouldn’t have been. I’ll rewind it just a little bit here. I’ve got to be able to – Okay. I’ll just sort of go to A nine eighty three, and then I’ll just press this, and this, and go to nine eighty three. Oh. This is the one that doesn’t rewind. I forgot about that. I’ll do it over here. Hang on a second. (pause) Nine eighty three. Rewind. That’s good enough. I don’t know what I’m doing. Okay. And okay. So, now, as I was going through it, I remembered also that this, you’d this kind of situation once before as well.
E: Yeah.
D: And so, it wasn’t all that unusual. Um, I mean it wasn’t all that shocking, in a sense. It’s always shocking, of course, but…
E: Mm.
D: …but there isn’t anything about this subject that isn’t shocking. I mean, you know, it’s – Having these experiences at all is shocking. I mean, everything is shocking.
E: Yeah. It’s amazing.
D: So.
E: It’s unbelievable.
D: It’s what?
E: It’s just kind of unbelievable. It’s amazing.
D: Yes. Absolutely. Um hang on a second because I’m getting a lot of static on this end. Hold on.
E: Yeah. You keep breaking out.
D: Let me try something. Hold on. Is that any better?
E: Um, yeah.
D: Let me try one more time. No. It’s just the, just the line we have.
E: Do you want me to ring back?
D: No. I think it’s okay.
E: Yeah.
D: Um, so now, you’ll be able to just sort of go right back to where you were before. And there was some third guy there, and, and you know, the question was, was the third guy younger, or older, or - ?
E: He was middle-aged, I think.
D: I’m sorry. He was what?
E: Middle-aged, I think.
D: Also middle-aged. So, the three of them were –
E: I think the second one was a bit older, but –
D: Yeah, the second. I was about to say the three of them were middle-aged or older.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm, okay. And um is this when they finally take you, take you out of the room, or?
E: Yeah.
D: They take.
E: We’re in the passage.
D: And what happens next, then?
E: I just kind of remember walking. At some point, I can remember seeing the face of one of those hybrid people looking at me, but –
D: Is this a familiar one, or - ?
E: No. It was the other one.
D: Oh. The other one. Well, you mean he’s in the passageway with you, or he?
E: Um, I don’t think so. So, it must be another time, but I think it was just a gray person in, in the passage.
D: I see. Mm hm.
E: You know, maybe there was like other people in the passage as well at some point.
D: Uh huh, okay. And, well, you mean there’s, you see people back and forth who are walking around or whatever?
E: No. But, I think I maybe he came out behind us…
D: Oh.
E: …at some point. It wasn’t – Maybe when I went out. It wasn’t then. Like, we were maybe walking, and then somebody else sort of came out.
D: Uh huh. Okay. So, you’re walking and somebody else comes out. You mean they then just walk up behind you, or they walk passed you, or they join you?
E: I think they were a little bit behind us.
D: Mm.
E: I don’t know what, I don’t know why I have a feeling it was some of those, a guy with some gray people, but I probably must’ve seen them at some point. But I think they were behind.
D: Okay. Mm hm. So, what happens next, then?
E: I can remember seeing this window. It’s like, a big window. It was all like black.
D: Hm. Well, you know, a window is usually encased in a, a wall of some sort, but some windows can be, go from floor all the way up, you know?
E: Mm, it was kind of – It either, either went like floor to ceiling, or it was pretty close.
D: I see.
E: It had white around the window.
D: Mm hm. This is in a, a different room or in the passageway?
E: No, it was in a room. It had a light. A quite bright light inside, inside the room.
D: It had a bright light in the room, but you could…
E: Yeah.
D: …you could see out okay out of the window?
E: I couldn’t really see what was out there because it was like black out the window.
D: Oh I see.
E: It was dark. I wasn’t like up close by the window. I could see it across the room.
D: Oh. I see. Well, were you in a passageway just before you came into that room, or - ?
E: Yeah. I can remember in the passageway, there wasn’t any window there I could see.
D: Mm hm. Did you turn right into the window, or, or - ?
E: I turned left.
D: You turned left into it. Oh. I see. Okay.
E: There’s like stuff, there’s stuff in the room. I don’t know if it was like tables or. They weren’t tables like the other place. More, maybe more like benches or something, but there just seemed to be stuff in there.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, it wasn’t like table-shaped. It was, like, surfaces above the ground, but they were, they weren’t like rectangular. It was more like kind of – It was either the tops of some kind of equipment, or else it was like some kind of surfaces that you could do things on. But, I don’t know, there were just sort of surfaces up there.
D: So, there were sort of surfaces that were coming out of the floor, you mean, or - ?
E: Um, they were, they were the top, but there was something underneath them.
D: Oh. I see. Mm hm. Well, they were in the middle of the room, or they were out connected to the wall, or - ?
E: They’re kind of – They were in the middle of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: They kind of went towards the side. I was looking across to where that window was, and I could sort of see them going in the room.
D: I see. So, when you go into this room, who takes you into the room?
E: It was that hybrid guy was there.
D: What happened to the gray who you were walking with before?
E: He was also there.
D: Oh I see.
E: I do remember they’re both there.
D: Mm hm. Oh. Both of them have come in now.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, one is your, the guy you know from childhood.
E: Yeah.
D: Was? Do you think he was, he was Dartus, or he was Darus, or he was - ? I mean well, he wouldn’t have been Darus. But.
E: No.
D: Do you think he was - ?
E: I don’t know. I don’t think so.
D: Oh well, maybe let’s see. Now, Dartus was the gray guy, or and Darus was the hybrid?
E: I don’t…Darus is, is Dartus. I just changed his name so that, because my family knows the name Dartus, and if they ever saw it by accident, they’d immediately think, “Dartus” and you know “Oh my God, it’s Emma.”
D: Oh, okay. Then we’ll have to change that in the –
E: So, I put Darus. I called it Darus in the material on the sort of website. But, I have never actually – I called him Dartus.
D: He has a name.
E: The Dart…
D: I’ll have to check that and make sure that um that it, that it is in fact changed everywhere.
E: Yeah.
D: But, the names are so close. If your family sees it, they’re going to figure it out pretty quick.
E: I know. I was going to say, “Well, I’m sorry it’s -” I don’t know. Oh, God.
D: Well, we can change it.
E: I told it to my ex-husband, my ex-husband about it, and he said, “Look, if they ever see it, they’ll know it’s you, but just point-blank deny it. And that’ll always be that one percent that they can’t pin it on you.” Oh, God.
D: Number one, they’ll never see it.
E: Yeah.
D: Number two, you’ll always have deniability that will always be there.
E: Yeah.
D: So, and they’re not going to want to believe it’s you.
E: Yeah. Yeah
D: But, number one, they’ll never see it. “It’s not, it’s not going to happen.”
E: Yeah.
D: I said confidently.
E: (laughs) The only danger is my dad might see it because he’s, he’s read your book, by the way, The Threat. And – God.
D: I know. Yeah.
E: Oh God.
D: It is a scary book. However um, I’ll tell you something, Emma. You, and Beth, and Wilma and others have been telling me things that are a lot scarier than…
E: Yeah.
D: …than what’s in that book now, I must say.
E: Yeah.
D: So, um, uh so the two guys are in there…
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: …and, and uh what happens next? I mean, are they next to you? Or are they, are they puttering around in there? Are they doing something, or are they concerned with you?
E: They were at the side. They were at the side. When I went inside, I think they might’ve been in the room already, and that guy, that little gray guy put me in there.
D: Oh, I see. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. But, somebody was sort of coming up from behind you.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm.
E: I wonder if they came in or whether they went passed. I’m not sure.
D: Okay.
E: We’re going over to the side of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: We’re just sit down on something.
D: Are you sitting next to the wall, or?
E: No. We’re sort of sitting on like – It was out in the middle space of the room. But. The light wasn’t so bright where we went. More dimmer light.
D: Okay.
E: Like, sitting down, and like those hybrid people are sitting down as well.
D: Mm hm.
E: The gray guy was there, but I think he just was standing there.
D: So, he’s, he’s observing or something?
E: Yeah.
D: Or waiting or whatever?
E: Mm-hmm.
D: Well, I, you’re sitting shoulder to shoulder, are you, or?
E: Um, no. They were sitting opposite me.
D: Oh, I see. So –
E: It’s like there’s something in between us…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and we’re looking down at it.
D: Hm. How close are you, are you to, to them? I mean, I know there’s something in between, but –
E: Pretty close. Like, maybe a meter or something away.
D: Oh, so you’re, you’re, you’re very close together. Yeah. Sure. So, are they sitting together, the two hybrid guys, or - ?
E: Um, one of them is like opposite me, and the other one is like – I don’t know if it’s like a circular arrangement, but he’s kind of more – He’s not like sitting directly next to the other guy. He’s more on the side.
D: So, you’re in a kind of little triangle or something.
E: Yeah. A kind of.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. So, what, then, is, is kind of between you?
E: The thing we’re looking down at.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s like my brain was hurting.
D: Huh.
E: They were showing me something. It was that guy that I know was showing me something. And that other little gray guy was just standing, looking.
D: Okay. Well, when you look down, are you looking at a, at a device of some sort, or?
E: It’s like a kind of a box, but it’s got like something in the top. You can sort of see something. I’m not sure what it was.
D: You’re not sure what it was? Okay. Well, does, does the hybrid guy say anything to you, I mean, in preparation for this?
E: Yeah. Yeah. Like, my head – My brain felt quite stressed.
D: Mm hm. You mean that’s what he said?
E: Um, no. I just kind of felt it.
D: Oh.
E: My head at some point. He was talking to me about um. Because I was recording, starting to record stuff that was happening to me…
D: Yes.
E: …and he was like talking about that. He showed me something. It’s almost like a city or something.
D: Mm.
E: Like, the image is dark. He said it’s going to be – Like, there was a disaster or something. He’s going to help. I think he kind of showed me things. Visual kind of stuff.
D: Mm hm. Now, you’re looking down.
E: Half, half the time I was looking down, but I was also looking at a lot some of the time at him because I can remember him looking at me and. I think quite a lot of the time he was telling me things when he was looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: And he wasn’t happy about, that I was recording things, and it was sort of – He was telling about some kind of thing that’s going to happen.
D: What, what, what is he saying about what’s going to happen?
E: It’s something that involved, a cit…a city. Some kind of disaster in a city or something. He was like showing me like the whole top of the area.
D: Mm hm.
E: All these buildings and things. I think I saw it in that box or something or. I’m not quite sure, but I just have this visual image of it.
D: Yeah.
E: They’re putting like a lot of – I think I felt like a lot of stress, stress feeling in my head.
D: Mm hm.
E: And that other guy was agreeing and saying that I shouldn’t do it. Like, there was going to be a disaster or something, and they were here to help. And it’s like um, like I mustn’t interfere with that kind of thing.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I would be interfering with – Like, it’s very important. Not to do anything to – It’s almost like destabilize it or something. Mess around.
D: Okay. Let me just change my tapes here. Sorry about that. So, there’s going to be a disaster, and they’re here to help, and you’re going to be interfering with that by, by recording your experiences.
E: Yeah. They were saying something about Justin. Like, it was like he was giving me a bad impression of him or something, and I like shouldn’t listen to him.
D: Justin?
E: Yeah. It’s because he is telling me I should record my experiences, and they didn’t like it. Saying that I shouldn’t listen.
D: Mm hm.
E: Mm he keeps showing me this city all the time. I think that, I think that guy that I know had been in my apartment sometime before because he was reminding me of something that happened.
D: I see. Sometime, you know, in the recent past, or?
E: Yeah. Like, a few months before.
D: What’s he sort of reminding you of?
E: Something kind of horrible that happened. I think it’s kind of like threatening me though. I think it would, they would do it again or something.
D: Is this that, you mean it has to do with the record?
E: Yeah.
D: You mean as early as 2001, they were threatening you about this record business?
E: Uh, yeah.
D: That means that they’ve been threatening you steadily for five years.
E: Yeah.
D: You know, they don’t give up, these guys. (laughs) They just, they just keep plugging along.
E: No wonder it’s been hard doing it.
D: Well, of course it’s been hard. It’s been especially hard recently because they’ve really wretched it up. But, they’ve been doing it for five years already…
E: Mm.
D: …and you’ve still managed to, to do it. It’s amazing. I think you ought to put that in the record.
E: Yeah.
D: That, that the…
E: Yeah.
D: …beings have been, you know, pressuring you sev…fairly severely not to write this. And you should also put in the record the fact that your counselor suggested that you begin to make a record of all these odd experiences.
E: Yeah. Are you there? The phone was like going out.
D: I’m still here.
E: Okay.
D: Should I?
E: I can hear you now. But, just for a minute, your voice was going.
D: Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Um, I might’ve dropped the phone a little bit.
E: Okay.
D: Ah.
E: Mm.
D: So, but, there’s going to be this disaster. Do, can you sort of see the disaster down there? I mean, is it - ?
E: No, but he was just showing me these buildings in a city, and like a lot of them looked white. Like, a very bright light on the buildings. It was like bleaching it all with white light or something on them.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, you could see it was a city of buildings.
D: Is it a recognizable city? I mean, is it (censored), or?
E: No. No. It was just recognizable as human.
D: I see.
E: A human city.
D: Mm. So, they’re making you feel guilty.
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: Now, what’s the guy who’s not your – who was the strange guy that – I mean, the unfamiliar guy, what’s he doing?
E: He was just sitting on the side, looking, and he was also like agreeing.
D: I see. Mm. But, the leader of the conversation is the one you know?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: I think one of the reasons I don’t like the guy very much is he can be extremely hard, and doesn’t really care.
D: And doesn’t really what?
E: Really care very much.
D: Oh. He doesn’t really care. Yeah. Mm. Well, no matter what relationship that you have had with him for all of your life, they are still focused on the program.
E: Yeah.
D: And that is their life. Their life is the program.
E: Yeah.
D: And from what we can tell – I may be wrong about this. I, I don’t know what they do in their downtime, you know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: But, every time that, that he deals with you or that anybody… any hybrid ever deals with a human, it’s related to the program.
E: Yeah.
D: So, that’s, that’s, that’s really the, the face that he presents, in a sense.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, are you, when you’re sitting there, do they give you a chance to talk? I mean, can you ask questions, can you say anything, or - ?
E: Not really. No.
D: Mm hm.
E: They’re mainly just saying those things, and I was having a lot of visual images and stuff…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and feelings. Like, they’re trying to make me feel like Justin was bad.
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah
D: So, I haven’t come into the picture and neither is Budd, but, but Justin is the guy who they’re after now.
E: Yeah. I had written Budd Hopkins a letter a few months ago before, but he hadn’t replied, and I hadn’t really expected to hear back from him.
D: Yeah.
E: So, it was mainly just Justin who was like encouraging me to write it.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. Because it was about a year before Justin sent you an e-mail.
D: In 2000 he sent me an e-mail?
E: 2002. It was quite a while before I made contact with you.
D: Yeah. Yeah. Mm hm.
E: I don’t think I – I think I hadn’t even like read your book or anything.
D: Yeah. Yeah Justin was very careful to not say who you were at the time and.
E: Yeah.
D: Then, you were using the word, the name Helen, as I remember.
E: Yeah. That was weird because like um. I was thinking of what name because, you know, I hate choosing names, and then this name Helen just came in my head. And then, I said to Justin, “What name?” and he said, “Oh. Helen,” (laughs) and I was just like, “Oh.” That’s was so weird.
D: (laughs) Well, you should’ve kept on using Helen. Helen is a perfectly fine name.
E: Mm.
D: See what, in terms of, of your website, you’ve got Emma and Emilia…
E: Yeah.
D: …and I keep thinking they’re only a letter apart or so…
E: I know.
D: …you know?
E: I chose Emma because it was the most common name, girl’s name in 2004. And then, I said to my sister, “Oh. What’s your favorite girl’s name?” and she said, “Emilia.” Oh.
D: (laughs) Well, still, you, you know, you might want to think about choosing a name that’s a little bit different.
E: Mm.
D: Although, Emma and Emilia –
E: Yeah. Emma and Emilia are –
D: Well, Emma and Emilia does sound like sisters.
E: Yeah.
D: A mother would name their kids Emma and Emilia. Two girls, you know? But um, but I, I think it’d just be easier for the reader to not have to think, “Let’s see. Which one’s Emilia, and which one’s Emma?” you know? That kind of stuff.
E: Yeah. And they might think we’re twins because, because I’m small, and she was tall, so we actually were the same height.
D: Oh, yeah, right.
E: And in all the drawings, I finally realized, “Oh, my God. They’re going to think we’re twins.” (laughs)
D: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You’re, You’re going to have to say that…
E: Yeah.
D: …in the text that she was taller.
E: Yeah. My younger sister. Yeah.
D: Mm hm. So um, anyway. That, that can all, that’s all tweaking stuff. You can, we can worry about that later.
E: Mm hm.
D: So um, uh, you’re sitting there in this room with this window
E: Yeah.
D: And they’re showing you how horrible things are going to happen, and they’re here to help.
E: Mm.
D: And, um.
E: They were really saying that they were here to help. Yeah.
D: Mm hm. And uh so, they’re, they’re trying to give a rationale for what they’re doing that is acceptable.
E: Mm.
D: Whether there’s going to be terrible things happening, whether they’re going to help, who knows? Unless, of course, they’re going to cause the terrible things to happen.
E: Yeah.
D: Which is – That’s the only way you can foretell the future as far as I’m concerned.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: But um, I, I wouldn’t place a lot of stock in that, to tell you the truth. Not right now, anyway.
E: No.
D: But, I would place stock in the fact that they want you to stop. Stop…
E: Yeah.
D: …your record back in 2001.
E: Yeah. I think they might’ve – The first time I drew a picture for my records was the picture I drew of Dartus I was going to send with the letter that I sent to Budd Hopkins.
D: Uh huh.
E: But it was just like a pathetic little picture which should’ve taken five minutes to draw it. It took me about four hours. I felt all this fear and that. And I was thinking, “Oh,” you know, because – The fear was probably because I was, you know, trying to remember him and all that, and I was going back to all of that stuff. But, now, I’m kind of wondering whether they actually paid me a visit at the time I was drawing it, and that’s why it took four hours.
D: I wouldn’t doubt that. Yeah that. That makes sense because sitting there for four hours for a five-minute drawing is just too long.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, you’d been, you’d have known it.
E: Yeah.
D: You, you’d have been able to account for the time, and fretting, and, and carrying on, and ringing your hands, and.
E: Yeah.
D: You know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: And doing it, and erasing it, and doing it, and erasing it, and doing it, and erasing it or whatever. I mean.
E: Mm.
D: It’d be, be an event. (laughs)
E: Mm.
D: Um, so, uh, do they, do they say or do anything else? I mean is there, is this…
E: Mm.
D: …the whole point of this, or does, does the image change?
E: Like, they were really hurting my brain. There was a really kind of quite stressful feeling in my head about it.
D: Mm. So, you’re getting tightening muscles up there, are you, or?
E: Um, no. I just sort of – I’m not quite, quite sure how to describe it, but maybe just had feelings of – Very, very stressful feelings.
D: Okay. Mm hm.
E: It might’ve had to do with that box. I was looking at it as well. There’s like a white light on it.
D: Oh I see.
E: I think I just looked at it now and then.
D: I think.
E: I was looking at the guy.
D: I’m sorry. You, say that again.
E: I was mainly looking at the guy, and then sometimes I just had looked down at the box…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and there was a white light on the top of it.
D: I see.
E: (pause) And he reminded me of something that happened a few months before in my apartment. It was like it would happen, happen again or something. I’m not sure what it was.
D: And he said it would never - ? I’m sorry.
E: He’s saying it was going to happen again or something. It was something quite stressful or –
D: So, he threatens that it might, it will happen again.
E: Yeah. (pause)
D: So, that’s the threat, then.
E: Yeah. I think, I think he was like dragging me around my apartment by my hair because like I just have this image. He was like reminding – Because I couldn’t remember it, but he was like reminding me of it.
D: Mm hm. This was all related to the record?
E: Mm. I had just – I had decided that I was going to finally look, look at it.
D: Mm hm. I see, okay.
E: He was saying that things are going to happen to my family and things. He was showing me like an image of my mother and saying that she was going to die or something.
D: Hm. And this is in 2001?
E: Yeah. I think it was back in 2001. I can remember having this feeling that somebody had threatened me about, about it.
D: Yeah.
E: I think that’s what it was.
D: That’s interesting. Very interesting. And they’re saying the same things. They’re still saying, they’re still threatening death to family members.
E: Mm.
D: So, they’ve been doing that on and off I would imagine for five years now.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, point accurate, whatever it is.
E: Yeah. That’s the thing. They must’ve known when I started because writing to Budd Hopkins was when I started…
D: Yeah.
E: …and they must’ve known.
D: Hm. Well, that puts a whole different slant on, on all sorts of things.
E: Mm.
D: So, what I’m, I’m, what people are telling me is not necessarily brand new.
E: Mm.
D: But it is still involved with threats to people who will, will be helping hybrids to assimilate.
E: Mm.
D: Yeah. Hm. Okay.
E: I remember having this strange kind of memory in 2001 of somebody saying that they were like going to drop me in the sea or something. I can, I told Justin about it, and uh I couldn’t sort of really understand it, but I, could, I could remember it.
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: Interesting. Very interesting. On how their minds work and how their modus operandi, you know? Their, their method of operation.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what happens next, then?
E: Mm. I saw this gray guy standing down. He was looking at me.
D: The little gray guy, you mean, or - ?
E: Yeah.
D: Well.
E: I think he kind of – More that he kind of took my arm. Because I think I had to stand up.
D: Oh I see.
E: I was walking out.
D: Are the hybrids walking out with you, or are they staying behind?
E: Yeah. They’re walking out as well.
D: Oh, okay. What happens next, then?
E: I can remember holding one of those babies.
D: They take you into a, a special room, or place, or?
E: Yeah.
D: You the only person in there, or?
E: Um, no. There’s some – There’s a guy. I see a guy in there as well.
D: Mm hm.
E: There might’ve been some other, some other people as well.
D: Once again, anybody you recognize by any chance, or?
E: No.
D: Okay.
E: This baby had quite big eyes looking at me. We’re eye to eye.
D: The hybrid guy’s looking at you?
E: No, the baby.
D: Oh. The baby’s looking at you.
E: Yeah.
D: How, how old is this baby, do you think?
E: I’d say it was several months old.
D: So, it’s, it’s a young baby.
E: Yeah. It was very intelligent. You could see, tell by the way it was looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: It was very um aware. I just know I quite liked it.
D: Is it a male, or a female, did you say, or?
E: I’m not sure.
D: Okay. Do they want you just to, to hold it, or?
E: Hm. Just to look at it.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s almost like it was saying things to me, but I’m not sure if that’s right. But, it was kind of – It was definitely um aware. It was a baby, but it was kind of intelligent.
D: Mm hm. Do they want you to hold the baby in any specific way, or?
E: Um. They just put it – This woman put it in my arm. It’s like lying down. Its head was on the left-hand side…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and its face was looking up at me.
D: I see.
E: And I just really liked it.
D: Mm hm.
E: It just had a nice kind of – It seemed like a nice person.
D: Okay.
E: It’s kind of innocent, but it was aware.
D: Right. Yeah. Where are the hybrids?
E: Mm. I think they were there, but I wasn’t sort of aware of them. There was this woman in front of me, and she put the baby in my arm.
D: Mm hm.
E: And there were like other people around as well.
D: Yeah. Oh I see.
E: They’re standing against the wall. They’re kind of like standing against the wall.
D: Mm hm.
E: The wall behind us. And like there were some other people further along, also, standing against the wall.
D: All, all holding babies, you mean, or?
E: Mm. I think so.
D: I see.
E: Some of them seemed to have hybrids around them. Maybe hybrid women because I can remember these long gowns.
D: Yeah.
E: There’s sort of quite a few hybrid women there because there were quite a few of them.
D: Mm.
E: Maybe about four or some.
D: About four of these caretakers?
E: Yeah, because there was one by me, and then there were two further along, and then they were, I think, there was another one even further along.
D: Mm hm. Are these caretakers male, or female, or?
E: It’s like females.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think.
D: Are they, are they um sort of…what we would call late-stage, they look really human, or middle-stage, or early stage?
E: Um…I’d say middle or early. Early-middle.
D: Mm hm.
E: They weren’t sort of – You wouldn’t…want to see them on the street or anything.
D: Right.
E: Their hair wasn’t so good.
D: Mm hm.
E: Not really normal.
D: Yeah.
E: We had to go out.
D: So, you just hold the one baby?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: I’m putting my clothes on. They took me in that room.
D: Mm hm.
E: Put my clothes on. (pause) Like, two hybrid people were in the room, in that like changing place.
D: They were there with you? I’ll be darned. Okay.
E: Yeah. They were in, they, they were in the place where the babies were as well.
D: Mm hm. But, they, they, they went into the dressing area, though.
E: Yeah. I can remember seeing them there.
D: Mm hm.
E: For a while. I think they have to come back with us.
D: Oh I see.
E: I kind of remember being back in my apartment.
D: Mm hm. Are they there with you, or - ?
E: Mm. Yeah. But, the gray guys are.
D: But, not the hybrids, or?
E: Yeah. The hybrids are there as well.
D: Oh, okay.
E: Actually, I don’t think they were both there. I think it was just that guy that I know was there. I think that other guy was in the changing room, but I don’t think he came in my apartment.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was standing in the room. There’s like light there. I think I could see like lights coming in the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) The guy was telling me to tear it all up. All my stuff that had notes that I took. I didn’t have many, anyway, but he said, “Tear them up.”
D: Did you tear them up, or did you?
E: No.
D: Good.
E: He’s telling me he’s my friend.
D: I’m sorry, they what?
E: He’s just saying that he, that he’s my friend.
D: He’s telling you that he’s your friend?
E: Yeah. He’s tell, telling me to tear, tear them up.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) I think when he left, I was sitting on the end of my bed.
D: Uh, I see.
E: The light, the lights went out.
D: That’s when the lights went out? Oh.
E: Yeah. And I could hear this roaring sound outside the window.
D: Hm.
E: (pause) I think I kind of knew that something had happened, but I couldn’t remember anything.
D: Yeah. Well, do you think we’ve sort of done this one, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think it’s over.
D: Okay. Well, Emma, what I’m going to have you do, and this sounds, I know this sounds terrible…
E: Yeah.
D: …but can you call me back? The…
E: Yeah.
D: …static on this end has gotten so bad that I’m, I’m actually also hearing little music in here and there.
E: Oh, my God. Okay. I’ll ring you back.
D: So, okay. Bye, bye. (pause) Hello?
E: Hi.
D: Okay
E: Is that better?
D: Yeah. Mm hm. How do I sound?
E: You sound good.
D: Okay. So, let’s then move to, to four and a half years later when they’re still doing this.
E: Mm hm, mm hm.
D: It’s just amazing to me.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, they are so persistent, and yet they have failed so much.
E: Yeah. I know. It just kind of shows that they can’t break you, eh? (laughs)
D: Right. It’s amazing that you’ve been able to withstand that for all this time.
E: Mm.
D: Yet, at the same time, they’ve gone about their business, they’ve introduced you to various people who, you know, you’ve helped and this and that, and so – But, still, they’re still trying to get you to stop. And, and uh and of course, they’ve really been applying the pressure recently, too.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, they’ve been – It sort of all stops out now that you’re putting this up on the website, I think.
E: Do you think they know? They probably do. They probably know.
D: Yeah. They pro… – Well, I don’t know. They might have you just – I don’t, I don’t know. I’m, I’m, I’m going to be purposely vague about all this right now.
E: Alright. You know that guy? When he left before, I just had this strange memory that he like kissed me before he left, and I just counted it as a no. I don’t know…
D: You mean?
E: …but, that might’ve happened.
D: You mean in 2001?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh. Well, he might –
E: Like, being a friend sort of thing. I don’t know, but it’s just – I don’t know.
D: Well, he might’ve done that. I don’t see why not. I mean…
E: Mm.
D: …you know, they, they, they still um are mainly human, and they, oh they want, they want to – You know, they want you to like them for various reasons.
E: Yeah. Probably. Yeah.
E: Mm…Yeah.
D: Mm Hm…And you sort of were – What were you doing in that time? Was it you just sort of?
E: I was. I was just in my room at night.
D: Mm Hm…
E: Just um…
D: Were watching the television, or were you?
E: Um…I was just sort of like walking. And then like, a light went off.
D: Well, what time is this about?
E: Um…
D: Is it night, or is it morning, or?
E: It was night.
D: Mm Hm…
E: It was sort of late at night, I think.
D: You mean after 11 o’clock at night, or?
E: Mm…No. It was before then.
D: Oh, okay.
E: Um.
D: So, maybe it was 10 o’clock at night or something, or?
E: Um, a little later at night, I suppose. Yeah. Probably something like that.
D: Mm hm.
E: Because I looked, and the lights came on. Like, I looked at the clock. It was like coming up to 11:00, and there was this roaring sound out my window.
D: Well, if the lights came on, and your clock then said 11:00 –
E: It was about ten-to-eleven.
D: Well, is that the time that the lights went out, then?
E: Um, I don’t know why, but I have sort of a strange feeling like they went out at like 9:00 or something, but I don’t know.
D: Okay.
E: It could be my imagination.
D: Well, it certainly is possible. See, because what I’m thinking is that if the lights went off, the clock and the clock doesn’t reset itself to 12:00 or it just blinks -
E: Oh. It’s just a battery clock it’s not working from a power point.
D: Oh, I see. So, the electricity didn’t affect…
E: No.
D: …the clock. I see. Okay, mm hm. So, maybe it was around 9 o’clock then or something like that.
E: Ah the clock said about ten-to-eleven when the light, when the light came on because I felt kind of odd that it had gone out. Because it wasn’t, because it didn’t just flicker. It went out. The room went dark.
D: Mm hm.
E: It went out. I feel like my brain is kind of fighting against it like, it doesn’t want to know or something.
D: Right. Well, mm, yeah, but you do, and you’ll be able to remember it. You’ll find that it’s, it’s accessible. Well, before the lights went off, you were sort of, you said, walking in your room, or standing, or?
E: I think I was going to walk towards the kitchen or something. I was walking…
D: Mm hm.
E: …in that direction.
D: Okay. Now, you have your normal, evening clothes on your?
E: Yeah.
D: You’re wearing pajamas, or you’re wearing?
E: Um…I had a skirt on and a top. But, I often wore those to bed.
D: Oh, I see. Okay. Now it’s, it’s cold outside, is it? It’s July. It’s?
E: Um…It wasn’t really cold.
D: Okay. So, you start heading towards the kitchen. Now, is the light off, or, or is the light on in the kitchen?
E: Um…I don’t know because I didn’t get that far. I just, I was walking in my room. The light was on in my room…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and then the light went off.
D: Okay.
E: I think the light went off. It did go off.
D: Uh huh.
E: But, I’m not sure if it went off then or whether it went off later.
D: I see. Okay. Well, let’s just sort of situate though, you, though, in terms of walking…
E: I was walking towards…
D: …into the kitchen.
E: …the door. I was walking towards the doorway.
D: Mm hm. What I’m just asking is was, you know – Normally, would you have the light on in the kitchen, or did you turn it on?
E: No, I normally turn it on.
D: I see, mm hm.
E: I don’t think I actually made it to the kitchen.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t remember going in there. I think I was just going to go there.
D: Okay. Well, where are you? In other words, in 2001, where was your bed in the room?
E: Um, where it is now, which is on the other side of the room from the window.
D: Right, mm hm. So, have you passed the bed on your way to?
E: No. I was walking towards it.
D: Okay. So, you’re sort of walking towards the bed.
E: I think there was some people there.
D: In front of you, or side of you, or behind you, or?
E: Yeah. It was in front. I just see a vague memory of some people being – I think I stopped…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and like some people came because I can remember them standing near the end of the bed.
D: Oh. So, they were – If you were to keep walking, they’d be blocking your pathway, then.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Um.
E: There was like two people.
D: Two people? They small? They large?
E: Yeah.
D: They medium?
E: Normal, human-looking size.
D: I’m, I’m sorry?
E: They had clothes on.
D: A couple of human-looking people?
E: Yeah.
D: You recognize them, or?
E: I was looking down because I just saw they had these white tops on. I saw that.
D: Mm hm.
E: Uh
D: They were wearing pants or, of some sort, or?
E: Um. I’m finding it really hard to remember. I can just remember seeing the arm of one of them coming up.
D: Mm.
E: Like, I was looking down, and I saw the arm because they – I think they came and took me by the arm or something.
D: I see. Well, when you saw was – These were two males, or females, or male and female, or?
E: Uh, I think - They were two males, I think, because they had the same – Yeah, it was that guy that I know.
D: So, he was a familiar one?
E: Yeah.
D: Is this the one you’ve known for a long, long time?
E: Yeah, and another one with him.
D: Okay, now when you…
E: He had like a shirt – They had these like white tops on.
D: Long-sleeve, or short-sleeve, or?
E: It was long-sleeve.
D: I see, mm hm. Were they pullover, or do they have buttons, or?
E: They looked like buttons, and they had trousers on. They were like normal clothes.
D: Just regular clothes. Okay.
E: Yeah.
D: So, do they say anything to you when they see you, or?
E: Mm, I can remember that guy looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: I mainly remember them taking me outside.
D: I’m sorry. They, they say they’re going to, or?
E: I think that I go outside or something.
D: Oh. You go outside. Okay.
E: I’m not sure, but – Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Now, when you look at him and you realize, “Oh this is so and so,” does a name pop into your mind or not?
E: Mm…No.
D: Okay. Now is, the guy who’s with him there…
E: Mm.
D: …is this a different guy than the one you’ve seen in recent years, or?
E: Yeah.
D: It’s a different one. So, it’s not the –
E: Yeah. A different guy. A different one.
D: It’s, it’s not the same one?
E: No.
D: Okay, and is he older or younger than, than your friend, or?
E: Uh I think he was a bit younger.
D: Mm hm. Okay.
E: I’d say he’s like in his thirties or something.
D: Okay.
E: He’s got like staring eyes.
D: Scary eyes?
E: Staring.
D: Oh. Staring. Yeah. So, they, they sort of grab your arm or something like that, do they, or?
E: Yeah. He came up. He’s pulling my arm.
D: Mm hm, then what happens next, then?
E: I was going to go to the kitchen, but I think they just took me to by the window.
D: By the window?
E: I don’t know. I can’t remember. I just vaguely remember the window.
D: Mm hm. Okay. That’s fine. Sure. Do they say anything? I mean, do you get a sense of communication from them?
E: Yeah. I’m not sure – Yeah. But, I’m finding it really hard to remember what it – I can remember his eyes looking at me, saying something, but I can’t really remember.
D: Mm. Okay.
E: Come to take me somewhere.
D: Oh, I see. Okay. So, they take you over by the window.
E: Um, it’s funny, but I also get a feeling of maybe, maybe that was later.
D: Oh, okay. What do they do first, then?
E: Uh, maybe we went out the door. I don’t know. I’m kind of confused. I think we went by the door. The front door.
D: Out the front door? Okay. It’s dark outside, I assume, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Do you see anybody you know out there? I mean, is –
E: Um, no.
D: Okay. And you’re just sort of standing right outside the door, or do you…
E: Um.
D: …you walk?
E: I have a feeling that we went down the stairs and like around the back right by the car park.
D: Oh I see okay.
E: There’s no light when we’re walking around on the ground in this sort of place. It’s dark.
D: So, there’s no lights on out there?
E: No. Not out the back.
D: I see. Well I…
E: I think there’s some people out in the back, like in the car park.
D: Mm hm.
E: Some short people there.
D: Oh. I get it. Okay. Are they anywhere near the cars, you mean, or are they?
E: They’re kind of in the middle area. The open area.
D: Mm hm. How many of the short people are out there?
E: Maybe about – Quite a lot. Like, five, or six, or something.
D: Oh okay.
E: I do see some people there. I wonder if they’ve got someone else there.
D: This a neighbor of yours, you mean, or?
E: I’m not sure, but I think there were some human-sized people, and there now are a lot of little people as well.
D: Oh, okay. So do they, do you walk up towards them, you mean, or?
E: Yeah. Like, they were spread out. Like, some of them are up by the fence, and some of them were closer to where we were.
D: Mm hm. Male or female um human ones, or?
E: I’m not sure because they were further down. I think some people came down the tunnel after me.
D: Mm hm.
E: They’re bringing someone down.
D: So, when they bring him over towards where you’re standing, can you see who that is?
E: Mm…I’m not sure because it’s dark.
D: Yeah.
E: I think they had like three of us there. There was a guy, and then there was me, and then there was this other guy.
D: I see. Okay. (pause)
E: I don’t know why, but I kind of remember this cat walking past or something.
D: The cat walking past the – Is the cat paying any attention to what was going on (laughs)?
E: No. It just kind of look - It kind of didn’t look comfortable, but it was alright.
D: Mm hm. So, what happens next, then?
E: There was like light. I saw the building. I was standing, facing the building and the light on the building. It was lit-up.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think there was something there.
D: Something up there?
E: Yeah. (pause) I think some of those people are going up.
D: Mm hm.
E: I could see one of those human-looking people looking at me.
D: One of the – You mean one of the hybrids?
E: Yeah.
D: Well, well I’m a little confused. There were two hybrids who came into your –
E: Yeah.
D: You mean it’s one of them that’s staring at you?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh, oh I’m sorry. Okay. So, it was – Which one do you think it was, then?
E: It was the other one. Not the normal one.
D: Yeah oh. The younger one.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Now, where are you when he’s staring at you?
E: He’s standing at the edge of the car park.
D: I see. So he’s, does he say anything to you while he’s looking?
E: No, because he was a bit, a bit away. He wasn’t like up close.
D: Oh I see. Mm hm.
E: I can remember walking, it was in one of those places. Going in this room.
D: Well, before that happens, do you get a sense of, of going in, going towards this light or anything like that, or?
E: I can remember like a little light around me.
D: Mm hm.
E: It didn’t feel very good.
D: Okay.
E: I don’t know why, but I keep remembering seeing this cat like walking past.
D: Mm. Though, the cat wasn’t scared, though, and –
E: He kind of walked past when I was standing by the car park.
D: Yeah.
E: He walked past. Yeah. He didn’t look comfortable.
D: I wonder if the cat realized that there was, this was not what’s supposed to happen.
E: Mm.
D: So, what’s the next thing you sort of remember, then? I mean –
E: Walking. We’re just in this place, and there were like a lot of people there.
D: Mm hm. Now, when you walk into this place…
E: Yeah.
D: …are you sort of walking on, on mass with the other?
E: Not like packed in, but they’re kind of around as well.
D: Mm hm.
E: There were quite a few people in this room.
D: Well, the ones who you came in with, though,
E: Yeah.
D: …the other two…
E: Yeah.
D: …can you get a look at them by any chance, or?
E: Yeah. It’s like I don’t want to see them, eh?
D: Hm…Are they familiar at all do you think, or?
E: Uh…I think so. But I think I don’t want to know. I think maybe, yeah.
D: You mean it might be somebody who’s a friend of yours, or?
E: I don’t know. I just – I can remember seeing this person in like a pair of trousers, but it’s like I don’t want to remember anything else.
D: Mm…Are they from your house, do you think? I mean, from your apartment complex, your building. Or from across the street, or next to it or something, or?
E: I think one of them might have been in the building next door.
D: Hm, oh I see.
E: I think one of them might’ve been from my building.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know. I don’t want to – I don’t think I want to know.
D: Well, if you know, you know. If you don’t, you don’t. You know what I mean it’s? It’s, it’s something that you can’t not know. If you do know it, you can…
E: Yeah.
D: …choose not to remember it. But, then again, it might be helpful to, to know sort of, who else might be involved because of what, what events have happened recently in terms of telling you, you know, “Pay no attention to anybody who moves in the house.” I mean, “In the, in the building.”
E: Yeah. One of them might have been the guy who was in – Like, on the other end. That other guy, I think, was from the building next door.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think I know who they are, but it just makes me feel really horrible.
D: Why do you think that is?
E: I don’t know.
D: Because you have to remember that if they’re in the process of having these experiences, they’ve had them since they were children...
E: Yeah.
D: …and uh…and it does – Suddenly, suddenly you know, if you recognize them, and yet they’re still living around you, then –
E: One of them is, and one of them’s moved.
D: Well, the one that’s moved, is he the one who comes around every once in a while?
E: Yeah.
D: So, he’s your, your friend.
E: He’s kind of a friend. Like, we don’t like socialize or go out together and that, but he comes back and visits me sometimes.
D: Mm hm.
E: He just appears and.
D: Well, he’s drawn to, to you…
E: Yeah.
D: …and he probably somewhere doesn’t know why, or how, or what, but he probably feels that he has a connection to you in some way.
E: Yeah. That’s probably true.
D: You have to remember, in one sense, you’re, you’re sort of lucky in that you know what is happening, and you know is happening to other people as well...
E: Yeah.
D: …and therefore you can react in a way that’s appropriate to the situation…
E: Mm.
D: …whereas they can only act on this unconscious level…
E: Mm.
D: …which they might even interpret as instinctual or something like that. But, but they can act, they can only act with lack of knowledge.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, so it is good to know, actually.
E: The other guy always looks at me. Because I can see him kind of looking at me when I see him on the street. Like, we’ve never spoken or anything, but – His mother. He lives with his mother, and his mother always glares at me.
D: Mm…Well.
E: She probably – If she is his mother –
D: Well, you don’t know whether it came down through the mother or the father, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: But, if she glares at you too…
E: Yeah.
D: …then, who, well, who knows what’s in her mind? (laughs) But um, but, but it certainly is possible. It certainly is possible.
E: Mm.
D: And um this is what’s called working a neighborhood.
E: Right.
D: And this happens quite often where…
E: Really?
D: …they’ll take a whole bunch of people from the neighborhood. Yeah.
E: Right.
D: The first time I encountered this was maybe fifteen years ago, eighteen years ago or something like that when…
E: Right.
D: …this guy was abducted from his house and floated up towards this object. And then, he could see his neighbors from his houses around him floating up.
E: Right.
D: And there was this woman who lived, you know, who across the street, or next to her or whatever it is, Mrs. So and So who was…
E: Yeah.
D: …an elderly woman, who was coming onboard, too, and all that. And he was sort of amazed.
E: Yeah.
D: And then, when he went back down, he could, he could see people, more people coming up from this sort of…
E: From the sky.
D: …track of homes he lived in…
E: Yeah.
D: …and you could tell that they were working the neighborhood, you know?
E: Right. That was there, and that must’ve been in our street too?
D: Well, I’ll tell you, though, it’s, it’s you have to remember the numbers are so large in this phenomenon that you could…
E: Yeah.
D: …almost pick any street, and…
E: Yeah.
D: … there’s going to be enough people in there…
E: Yeah.
D: …to make it worth their while to work the neighborhood, you know?
E: Yeah. I couldn’t see Matt there. Maybe Matt’s not –
D: You never know.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, it could be that they did something with Matt the day before, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: And the fact that he is hearing these knockings and things happen to him and all this other mysterious stuff…
E: Mm.
D: …you see, in my world, mysterious things don’t happen.
E: Yeah.
D: Things happen that you don’t know the origin of. That’s all.
E: Mm.
D: …and uh, and if you’ve had any abduction experiences, it answers ninety nine percent of those questions.
E: Yeah.
D: So um, so it’s this guy who, who comes around every once in a while…
E: Mm.
D: …and uh, and a guy next door, perhaps, you know, who you see from time to time.
E: Mm.
D: So, are there any other people in there? I mean, is it just the, just the three of you, or?
E: Um, I think there probably are because there seemed to be quite a lot of people.
D: Yeah. Hm. Probably from maybe a block away. Probably from…
E: Right.
D: …down your street or somewhere, something like that.
E: Yeah.
D: Have they all gotten there about the same time, you think, or are they in different? Are some just about to leave?
E: Some were like already there. I think we kind of went in more or less together, but the others were like already there.
D: Mm hm. Okay. So, what happens next, then?
E: There’s some gray people around me, and they’re kind of all over the place. Like, lots of them. And the light is quite bright.
D: Mm hm.
E: And I have to like, and I have to like take my clothes off.
D: Okay.
E: I take them off. I had to sit down on this thing like a bench.
D: Mm hm.
E: A seat. I could see the people walking around.
D: Yeah.
E: Some of those people came and got me. Like, these gray people. They made me stand up.
D: I see.
E: We’re just going to go out of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: There are a lot of people walking in the passage. Like, there was some people walking in front of me.
D: Oh. So, they’re not taking you out sort of one, then later, another one. There’s sort of a group type thing, almost.
E: There was one person in front of me, and then there was somebody coming down the other way. But, there was also like these gray people…
D: Mm hm.
E: …as well. (pause) Then I went in this room. There was a whole lot of tables.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was on this table.
D: You, you said there’s a large number of tables?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. How many tables do you think, do you think there are?
E: I’m not sure because I couldn’t see the whole room, but there’d be like tens of them.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I maybe saw about twenty, but I think there could’ve been more because I didn’t see the whole room. I didn’t feel like I remembered the whole room.
D: Okay.
E: It looked like a laboratory or something. It was big.
D: Hm.
E: (pause) I was lying on my side on this table. They’re kind of like pushing. I can remember their hands on me though. Like, they turn me on my side or something.
D: Hm…Your right side, or your left side, or?
E: My left side.
D: I see. Well, are you, are you sort of in the middle of the tables, or off to the side of the tables, or - ?
E: I was kind of in the middle part somewhere. They were around…
D: Mm hm.
E: …the middle.
D: Do you see anybody else on any of the other tables around there, or?
E: Mm, Yeah. There are quite a few people.
D: See your neighbors over there anywhere, or?
E: I didn’t really notice.
D: Okay.
E: There’s one of those taller people was there. He had like a top, he had like clothes on. Like a fitted top on.
D: Hm. Okay. Well, they turned you on your side.
E: Mm.
D: Are they looking at your back, do you mean, or are they looking at your side…
E: Yeah.
D: …or?
E: Yeah. They were looking at my back. They’ve got my, they’ve got my head and my back.
D: Mm hm.
E: They put me back on my back.
D: Well, when they look at your back, do they just sort of poke around there, or do they, they look at your shoulders, or your?
E: They’re looking at my kind of spine, I think.
D: I see.
E: I can feel like touching all down my spine.
D: Mm hm. I see.
E: Yeah. The guy was looking in my eyes.
D: Mm hm. Now, is this, this the, a gray guy, or a?
E: He was a taller guy.
D: Tall human-like one or a…
E: No.
D: …tall gray guy?
E: A tall gray guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t see the human one.
D: Okay. Now, in –
E: They’re going to do something gynecological because they were doing something with my legs. There was other guys.
D: They, you mean, they’re pulling, putting them up, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Are there, are there like things like stirrups there, or are there, or are?
E: I don’t know, but I think there was something like that. Yeah.
D: Oh, I see. I, I didn’t want to put anything in your mind.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what’s he sort of doing when, when he’s staring in there?
E: I don’t, don’t know. I can remember seeing a white room around and that, and then they were doing that.
D: Mm hm. Well is…
E: I think I could see the white room because I could see them doing stuff to my legs.
D: Yeah.
E: I must’ve been – The wall must’ve been – I probably wasn’t that far away from the wall because I could see the wall past the end of the table.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, there were a lot of other tables around.
D: Yeah. And you’re sort of in the middle of them, in a sense.
E: Yeah, but kind of towards the edge by the end.
D: I see. Mm hm. So, he’s kind of staring at you.
E: Mm hm. I guess it was the usual thing that they do.
D: You mean sexual arousal business?
E: I don’t know. Yeah. Probably. I don’t remember a lot about what they actually did. I can remember them with some instrument or bringing something over.
D: Well, the sexual arousal business – Once again I’m, uh I’m going to have to ask these embarrassing questions, although I’ve already done it so many times that…
E: Mm.
D: …that, yeah, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s just something that I’ve just got to keep doing. Sexual arousal. How high up does it go?
E: Hm. Um. (pause) It’s kind of strange, but kind of – I don’t know if I’m really remembering it right, but I can remember like being like almost kind of orgasmic, but like for a long time. (laughs)
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know if that’s really real or what, but –
D: But, it doesn’t just go up to a plateau and then just stay at the plateau, or does it go all the way up to being orgasmic and stay at that, at that level?
E: Maybe like just before.
D: Okay.
E: Like, kind of like – Yeah. But I don’t know. I’m so embarrassed by it.
D: You shouldn’t really be embarrassed by this. I mean, I hear this almost every time, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: But, once again, depending on how high up the sexual feelings going, goes, this is uh you can tell what procedures are going to follow next.
E: Hm.
D: That’s why, that’s why I keep asking that question.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what sort of happens, then, when you – When he pulls away…
E: Mm.
D: …what happens next, then?
E: I think I had like quite strong, sexual feelings at that point…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and like I think it was that it was – Somebody was – I think they had some kind of instrument or something. But, I don’t, I don’t really remember it very well.
D: Okay.
E: But I don’t know whether I saw that before or. I’m not quite sure exactly when I saw that, but I did see somebody there. It was like one of the humans person because it wasn’t a gray person.
D: Mm hm. Now, this is a regular human person?
E: Yeah.
D: Without any –
E: It might’ve been one of those people because they had on like a white shirt.
D: Oh. So, he’s dressed, though.
E: Yeah.
D: So, it’s a human-like person.
E: Yeah. I think they did something. I don’t think it was gray – The taller – I think he kind of went there, but the other one did it. I don’t know. I seem to remember them like taking stuff away.
D: But, you, you say they used instruments for this?
E: I can. I can remember seeing someone holding something there.
D: Mm hm.
E: I actually think it was an instrument.
D: And they did something internally at that point. You get a sense that they were taking something out, putting something in? I mean –
E: I don’t have any sense of that at all.
D: Okay.
E: I can remember seeing someone walking away, holding something. It might’ve been an instrument. I don’t know what it was.
D: Mm hm. Okay.
E: I don’t know.
D: Well, was he holding it in two hands or one hand?
E: Two hands.
D: Okay.
E: It was a gray, a little gray one.
D: Mm hm.
E: I can remember like an uncomfortable feeling.
D: You mean uncomfortable in terms of painful, or?
E: Um yeah. Kind of like slightly pressure, but not, not painful, painful, but kind of uncomfortable.
D: Mm hm. This does not sound like an egg-taking incident.
E: Alright.
D: It might be, though. It does sound like something a little different, however.
E: Alright.
D: So, what’s the hybrid doing? What’s he?
E: Um, he’s doing something internally. The uncomfortable feeling was, it was vaginal. It wasn’t really abdominal.
D: Yeah. Vaginal discomfort. Not – Wasn’t uterine…
E: Mm.
D: …or abdominal. Usually when, when, when an egg is taken, people will feel a twinge…
E: Mm.
D: …and it’s off to the side somewhere. Left to right side, you know?
E: No. I don’t think it was that.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t remember that.
D: Um. However, the fact that he’s holding something with two hands…
E: Right.
D: …that’s, that’s important for me, I think.
E: Oh okay.
D: So, but, it’s interesting that the hybrid is, is, is, was – I’m not sure. The hybrid did something, and then, the smaller gray went away holding something with two hands.
E: Mm.
D: Is –
E: Yeah, yeah but the other taller gray guy was also down there. I don’t, I think the hybrids did it. I can remember seeing the hybrid standing there, holding this instrument, and I think that they did it. It’s like felt, yeah. I don’t know.
D: Yeah. That certainly is possible. Mm hm.
E: The taller gray one was communicating with the, the hybrid one.
D: Can you kind of pick up on their conversation a little bit?
E: Um, I’m not sure, but I can remember seeing his eyes looking quite strongly at the hybrid one. It was kind the way that – The same thing.
D: Yeah. So, you can’t kind of tap into that, or - ?
E: Um. No.
D: Okay.
E: I think it might’ve been something about what he was doing.
D: Mm.
E: He was telling him something. (pause) I remember, I remember this like little, short gray person looking at me at the side of the table.
D: You mean looking at…
E: He came up…
D: Mm mm.
E: …on the top of the table. He was looking.
D: Looking at your, at your face, you mean, or looking at?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh. Okay. Is he saying anything to you, or?
E: Um, he’s just kind of like – I think he put his hand on the front of my neck or something, and then he went, went away or something. I don’t know.
D: Mm. Okay.
E: (pause) I think they were going to take my legs out of those things.
D: Mm hm.
E: And the taller gray one was walking away.
D: The taller gray one is walking away, did you say?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: I was sitting up.
D: Are they helping you up, or do you just sort of get up by yourself?
E: The gray person had come around the table. I didn’t feel very good.
D: Mm hm.
E: Then, I get off the table. I still didn’t – I still felt uncomfortable.
D: You mean you’re still, still hurting, or?
E: I was just kind of uncomfortable a bit, but not much.
D: Mm hm.
E: There were like heaps of people in the room.
D: You can see them when you stand up there?
E: Yeah. I can see this guy lying on the table.
D: They doing anything with him, or?
E: Yeah. They’re just kind of around. Like, somehow, I think I just went out the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: I seem to remember somebody looking at me. I think it was one of those hybrid people.
D: Mm hm. I’ll just change these tapes here for a second. (changes tapes) Sorry about that. (pause) So, you’re walking out the room with, with a smaller gray, did you say…
E: Mm.
D: …or with a hybrid guy, or?
E: Not sure. I can remember – My memory is kind of all jumbled. I can remember seeing the face of this hybrid person looking at me. But, I can also kind of remember the eye. I can remember the face of the other tall gray person looking at me as well. I don’t know.
D: While you’re standing there, you mean?
E: No. No. At some point, I just remember seeing his face.
D: Mm hm. When you, you get off the table, and there’s a lot of people around and…
E: Yeah.
D: …you can see people lying on the tables…
E: Yeah.
D: …and see these other people, gray guys or whatever, working on them.
E: Yeah.
D: You see your neighbor anywhere or friend?
E: Uh, I didn’t recognize anybody, but um maybe I wouldn’t because I don’t really see that well. But, I just see that there were people there.
D: Yeah. Mm hm. Is this when somebody comes up to, to kind of stare at you a little bit, or?
E: I just seem to remember that gray guy’s face.
D: Yeah.
E: I was seeing him.
D: Okay. Well, when he looks at you, does he communicate with you, or?
E: Um, he was standing a little bit away from me. Like, I think I was – I think they took me to one of the tables because I saw him on the other side of the table.
D: They took you to another table?
E: Yeah.
D: Now, here comes an embarrassing question again.
E: Mm.
D: That sexual feeling that you had, is that still there or is that gone?
E: It’s kind of gone.
D: Oh, okay. Mm hm. So, they take you over to that, another table. Is this, is this an empty table or, or not?
E: No. There was this guy on it.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think it’s one of those things I had to do something.
D: Okay. Now, the guy on it, is he, he a person who’s familiar with you, to you, or?
E: Um, I don’t know, but I don’t think so.
D: Okay. What do they sort of want you to do, then?
E: Um, they kind of like – I was standing at the side, and they were like around me.
D: Mm hm.
E: And that other guy was like on the other side, looking.
D: Okay.
E: I think I had to do – I had to do like – I think that I did oral sex on that, on that guy.
D: Mm hm. Now, Emma, this is a, this is a sperm collection procedure. This is not a sexual thing. Remember that.
E: Yeah.
D: This an older guy, or a younger guy, or?
E: I don’t know. I don’t think I actually saw the person. I don’t know. Maybe – I don’t know. Middle, middle-aged? (pause)
D: I see. Mm hm. So, they have you do that, do they?
E: Yeah.
D: Is this from the side or, or do they, or is it from?
E: Yeah. It’s from the side.
D: I see. Okay. Now, the question, then, is what happens just as he’s about to ejaculate?
E: They’re like pulling me away.
D: What do they do with him?
E: There’s this gray person. Uh, I’m not sure because they pulled my head away, and then like I saw this gray person. One of the short people.
D: Mm hm.
E: And they were like taking me away.
D: Oh I see.
E: I don’t know. I don’t remember. I don’t see it, I think. I’m not sure.
D: Okay. Why they have people do this, I, I just don’t, I don’t understand. I think it, it has to do with failure to get the sperm any other way, I guess.
E: Mm.
D: Um. But, it has everything to do with the guy, getting the sperm, and using the woman to, to do it. I’ve seen this a lot of times. Lots and lots of times.
E: Mm.
D: It’s not unusual, unfortunately.
E: Yeah.
D: But, you can’t take this to heart, and you can’t, you can’t be embarrassed by this. And, you know, this is not, this is not something you just do to strange guys laying there. I mean it’s not…
E: Mm.
D: …not something anybody does. I imagine this is not a normal situation. And everything is controlled, and everything is for a reason, and this is not a sexual act in terms of a, an emotionally-involved, romantic event or anything like that kind of situation. This is mechanics.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, they take you away. You don’t get a chance to see them collecting the sperm?
E: No, because they’re pulling – They turn me. I was walking. I was going away.
D: Mm hm. Well, when they pull you away from him, do they say anything, or do they just grab you?
E: They just grabbed my head, pulled me away.
D: I see. Is it relatively quick, or is it slow, or?
E: Yeah. Quite quick.
D: I see. Mm hm. So, they know that exact point, I guess.
E: Yeah. Probably.
D: Which means automatically that they’re monitoring his nervous system.
E: Yeah.
D: How they can do that, I don’t know, but.
E: Yeah.
D: I don’t know. Did you notice – Were they staring at him while this was happening?
E: Uh, I’m not sure, but that taller grey guy was up where, by his head, even like when I was looking at him. So, they could’ve been.
D: Do you think maybe they could tell by change in blood pressure, or they could change by – You know what I mean? I mean, maybe they could tell by some other way.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm, extremely common.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s not unusual. So, they take you away from him, and…
E: Mm.
D: …where do they take you next, then?
E: Took me down by these tables…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and this gray guy was with me.
D: Okay.
E: He took me around. I think they’re going to take me by this other table.
D: I see, okay.
E: God. I don’t know. I just hope this isn’t my imagination, eh?
D: Well, if it’s yours it’s, it’s the imagination, then, of a woman who’s studying to be a priest right now…
E: (laughs)
D: …and it’s the imagination of a whole bunch of other people too, all of which think it was pretty awful. (laughs)
E: Mm hm.
D: Not something women normally imagine. You know what I mean? As…
E: Mm hm.
D: …as something that is not good. If you’re going to imagine it, you’d be imagining it as good.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: But, this is in the not good category.
E: Mm hm.
D: And usually, when people fantasize about such things, they fantasize with an, with an object of fantasy…
E: Mm.
D: …as opposed to some strange, middle-age, middle-aged guy lying on a table onboard a UFO. That would not be…
E: (laughs) No.
D: …a standard scenario, you know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: So, um they take you over to another one?
E: Mm hm.
D: This an older guy, or a younger guy, or?
E: Um, he was a bit older than the other one.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Now, does this, does this guy look familiar at all, or?
E: Um No.
D: Okay. Do they seem out of it? Do they seem alert?
E: No. They’re not moving. They’re just kind of like lying there.
D: Mm hm.
E: Not saying anything.
D: Now, here’s an odd question.
E: Mm.
D: Where, where are their legs? Are their legs straight out? Are they on the table? Are they hanging off the table, or?
E: They’re just sort of lying on the table.
D: Okay. Mm hm. So, they have you do this again, do they, or?
E: Mm hm.
D: Once again, when they, when they sort of pull you off of him, can you kind of see what they, what they do to him, then? (pause)
E: Um, I think they did have something there, but I don’t remember it so much. I was looking – Like, I saw him, but they did have something there. It was like attached to something.
D: Hm. I see. Okay. Once again, they knew, I assume – I’m just, I’m just saying this and you’re not, so I have to be careful here. But, they knew when to pull you off, in a sense.
E: Yeah. And then they put something there kind of by – I don’t know. Yeah.
D: Hm.
E: They’re taking me away.
D: Mm hm.
E: It was attached to something. It had like a, a rope or something. A cord or something.
D: Oh. I see what you mean. Okay. Right. Yeah. (pause) Are they taking you somewhere else now, or?
E: I just kind of go out. We’re in a passage.
D: They take you into a passage, did you say?
E: Yeah.
D: So, there’s no third guy, then?
E: I don’t know.
D: Or might there be?
E: I don’t know. I think wanted, I just really wanted to go out. I don’t know. Yeah. I went out. I did go out in the passage.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Do they say anything to you? Are they pleased? Are they?
E: Not really. No. I was walking.
D: It’s almost as if they do not have all the equipment that they need to just artificially get the sperm, so they use woman to do it.
E: Alright.
D: And um it works just as well for them. They don’t have to keep the equipment onboard.
E: Oh yeah. Yeah.
D: You know, now, if it’s just one table, they’ll have the equipment. They’ll have the thing. But, but they have it…
E: Yeah.
D: …for like twenty or thirty – That’s a whole another – I just think it’s a matter…
E: Mm.
D: …of efficiency for them.
E: And if they know that they’re going to be taking women as well, they don’t bother.
D: Yeah. Yeah. It’s all – I mean, I’ve seen this happen so many times that you, you, you just know it’s part of the deal. It’s part of the plan. It’s part, it’s just a matter of, like I said, efficiency.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s all about getting the sperm.
E: Yeah. I think there was a third one. I just couldn’t take it.
D: Well, the only thing that I would be interested in for the third one whether it was anybody you knew, you know?
E: I don’t think so.
D: Because if it was, then you’d have this – Obviously, there’d be even greater reason for them to, to look. But, the point is that they may not even see you.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, they might just be looking up, with their eyes closed, or whatever it is, and they’re, they’re not.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, sometimes they do see you and, and, and they think, as usual…
E: Mm.
D: …“That woman really looks out of it”
E: Out of it yeah.
D: As you look over at the guy who seems to be completely out of it also, laying there.
E: Mm.
D: So, you always have to keep that in mind that they’re, that they’re, they’re, they’re making a judgment. And the judgment is, “That poor woman is really under their spell,” basically.
E: Right. Yeah. God. That’s interesting. But, even though you can like move around. Yeah.
D: They, yeah. They know, they know, they. It’s hard to describe how much they know is happening.
E: Mm.
D: If sperm is being taken from them, sometimes they know that something is being, if it’s a mechanical device, something is being attached to their penis. But, then they, then they know that something is being drawn from it, and they just assume, “Oh. They must be taking sperm.”
E: Yeah.
D: But they’re, but they’re not. But sometimes it happens, and they don’t actually ejaculate. I mean, they don’t actually have an orgasm. It’s just sort of withdrawn in an odd way.
E: Right.
D: Um, uh when there’s a woman engaged, it’s usually oral sex or just sort of getting on top of the guy who’s lying on the table.
E: Yeah.
D: And then they have all these very, very conflicted feelings about…
E: Yeah.
D: …how it’s, how it’s terrible, and it’s awful, and yet you know they have these positive feelings about it because they have to. Otherwise, they can’t…
E: Mm.
D: …they can’t sustain an erection and all that because it’s been put in their minds. They’ve, they’ve already been prepared, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: And um so uh it’s, it’s a conflicting thing because they themselves sometimes get involved up with sexual feelings, and, of course, women sometimes get involved with sexual feelings and all that. And, and ultimately, as I said, it’s, it’s just a mechanical thing to get the sperm. That’s all these beings care about. They don’t care about anything else. They couldn’t care less about anything else that’s going on. Everything is geared towards getting the sperm. That’s the whole point.
E: Yeah.
D: But um, but, then, you know, if this goes on long enough over long enough periods of time, as I said before, it affects both men and woman.
E: Yeah.
D: And sometimes, it affects them negatively in their normal lives, and sometimes it affects them uh in ways that are surprising, and then sometimes, it doesn’t affect them.
E: Yeah. Do you think it’s a memory? If you remember, it affects you, and if you don’t, it doesn’t? Or, do you think it will affect you anyway, or - ?
D: I think it affects you more if you don’t remember it…
E: Why?
D: …because then you can’t process it properly…
E: Yeah.
D: …and, and you don’t know why you feel the way you do. You just do.
E: Yeah.
D: Whereas if you know what’s happening and you know, then, you can sort of relate it to, “Now I know why I feel this way. Now I know why I feel that way.” And then, and then you can take steps psychologically to deal with it and, and overcome whatever, whatever problem it might’ve caused. Now, it may not have caused a problem.
E: Yeah.
D: But, if it did, there’s no way to deal with it. There’s just, it just lays there, you know, in, in, in your mind, and, and that’s, that’s a problem. That can be a problem. In this situation, I think it is better to know than not to know.
E: Yeah. You’re right. Yeah.
D: Because this really does affect your personal life on a very deep level.
E: Yeah.
D: Now…
E: Right.
D: …less so when you’re older.
E: Right.
D: But, supposing this is happening when you’re an adolescent?
E: Mm.
D: …or when you’re in your early twenties, then it, then you know it has, it has a greater impact…
E: Mm.
D: …and so. Because you’re still sort of in informative years.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, I must say that I have not seen adolescent girls do this yet.
E: Mm.
D: Most of the time, it’s, it’s, it’s more, it’s, it’s women, it’s women passed the age of twenty one, or twenty two, or whatever it is.
E: Maybe they think it – Maybe it damages? I don’t know. It’s interesting.
D: Who knows? It just might be because my population is too small.
E: Yeah.
D: I just do not think of them of, of, of being concerned about whether it damages…
E: No.
D: …people or not. No. Do you have to call me back in a second?
E: Yeah. I do. Can I, can I just take five minutes?
D: Yes. Why don’t you take eight minutes?
E: (laughs)
D: And the reason I’m going to say that is that we’ll pick up right where you left off. I’m going to look up the very first time that I heard this and see how old she was.
E: Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay.
D: Okay. Talk to you in a few minutes.
E: Okay.
D: Bye. (long pause) Hello?
E: Hi.
D: Okay. Well, I couldn’t quite find it. I, I think she was actually in her thirties. (laughs)
E: (laughs)
D: So, um is the connection okay?
E: Uh yeah. Is it okay with you?
D: Yeah. Mm hm.
E: Yeah. Cool.
D: Hang on a second. I’m just going to rewind a little bit of this just because I think it was on, and it shouldn’t have been. I’ll rewind it just a little bit here. I’ve got to be able to – Okay. I’ll just sort of go to A nine eighty three, and then I’ll just press this, and this, and go to nine eighty three. Oh. This is the one that doesn’t rewind. I forgot about that. I’ll do it over here. Hang on a second. (pause) Nine eighty three. Rewind. That’s good enough. I don’t know what I’m doing. Okay. And okay. So, now, as I was going through it, I remembered also that this, you’d this kind of situation once before as well.
E: Yeah.
D: And so, it wasn’t all that unusual. Um, I mean it wasn’t all that shocking, in a sense. It’s always shocking, of course, but…
E: Mm.
D: …but there isn’t anything about this subject that isn’t shocking. I mean, you know, it’s – Having these experiences at all is shocking. I mean, everything is shocking.
E: Yeah. It’s amazing.
D: So.
E: It’s unbelievable.
D: It’s what?
E: It’s just kind of unbelievable. It’s amazing.
D: Yes. Absolutely. Um hang on a second because I’m getting a lot of static on this end. Hold on.
E: Yeah. You keep breaking out.
D: Let me try something. Hold on. Is that any better?
E: Um, yeah.
D: Let me try one more time. No. It’s just the, just the line we have.
E: Do you want me to ring back?
D: No. I think it’s okay.
E: Yeah.
D: Um, so now, you’ll be able to just sort of go right back to where you were before. And there was some third guy there, and, and you know, the question was, was the third guy younger, or older, or - ?
E: He was middle-aged, I think.
D: I’m sorry. He was what?
E: Middle-aged, I think.
D: Also middle-aged. So, the three of them were –
E: I think the second one was a bit older, but –
D: Yeah, the second. I was about to say the three of them were middle-aged or older.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm, okay. And um is this when they finally take you, take you out of the room, or?
E: Yeah.
D: They take.
E: We’re in the passage.
D: And what happens next, then?
E: I just kind of remember walking. At some point, I can remember seeing the face of one of those hybrid people looking at me, but –
D: Is this a familiar one, or - ?
E: No. It was the other one.
D: Oh. The other one. Well, you mean he’s in the passageway with you, or he?
E: Um, I don’t think so. So, it must be another time, but I think it was just a gray person in, in the passage.
D: I see. Mm hm.
E: You know, maybe there was like other people in the passage as well at some point.
D: Uh huh, okay. And, well, you mean there’s, you see people back and forth who are walking around or whatever?
E: No. But, I think I maybe he came out behind us…
D: Oh.
E: …at some point. It wasn’t – Maybe when I went out. It wasn’t then. Like, we were maybe walking, and then somebody else sort of came out.
D: Uh huh. Okay. So, you’re walking and somebody else comes out. You mean they then just walk up behind you, or they walk passed you, or they join you?
E: I think they were a little bit behind us.
D: Mm.
E: I don’t know what, I don’t know why I have a feeling it was some of those, a guy with some gray people, but I probably must’ve seen them at some point. But I think they were behind.
D: Okay. Mm hm. So, what happens next, then?
E: I can remember seeing this window. It’s like, a big window. It was all like black.
D: Hm. Well, you know, a window is usually encased in a, a wall of some sort, but some windows can be, go from floor all the way up, you know?
E: Mm, it was kind of – It either, either went like floor to ceiling, or it was pretty close.
D: I see.
E: It had white around the window.
D: Mm hm. This is in a, a different room or in the passageway?
E: No, it was in a room. It had a light. A quite bright light inside, inside the room.
D: It had a bright light in the room, but you could…
E: Yeah.
D: …you could see out okay out of the window?
E: I couldn’t really see what was out there because it was like black out the window.
D: Oh I see.
E: It was dark. I wasn’t like up close by the window. I could see it across the room.
D: Oh. I see. Well, were you in a passageway just before you came into that room, or - ?
E: Yeah. I can remember in the passageway, there wasn’t any window there I could see.
D: Mm hm. Did you turn right into the window, or, or - ?
E: I turned left.
D: You turned left into it. Oh. I see. Okay.
E: There’s like stuff, there’s stuff in the room. I don’t know if it was like tables or. They weren’t tables like the other place. More, maybe more like benches or something, but there just seemed to be stuff in there.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, it wasn’t like table-shaped. It was, like, surfaces above the ground, but they were, they weren’t like rectangular. It was more like kind of – It was either the tops of some kind of equipment, or else it was like some kind of surfaces that you could do things on. But, I don’t know, there were just sort of surfaces up there.
D: So, there were sort of surfaces that were coming out of the floor, you mean, or - ?
E: Um, they were, they were the top, but there was something underneath them.
D: Oh. I see. Mm hm. Well, they were in the middle of the room, or they were out connected to the wall, or - ?
E: They’re kind of – They were in the middle of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: They kind of went towards the side. I was looking across to where that window was, and I could sort of see them going in the room.
D: I see. So, when you go into this room, who takes you into the room?
E: It was that hybrid guy was there.
D: What happened to the gray who you were walking with before?
E: He was also there.
D: Oh I see.
E: I do remember they’re both there.
D: Mm hm. Oh. Both of them have come in now.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, one is your, the guy you know from childhood.
E: Yeah.
D: Was? Do you think he was, he was Dartus, or he was Darus, or he was - ? I mean well, he wouldn’t have been Darus. But.
E: No.
D: Do you think he was - ?
E: I don’t know. I don’t think so.
D: Oh well, maybe let’s see. Now, Dartus was the gray guy, or and Darus was the hybrid?
E: I don’t…Darus is, is Dartus. I just changed his name so that, because my family knows the name Dartus, and if they ever saw it by accident, they’d immediately think, “Dartus” and you know “Oh my God, it’s Emma.”
D: Oh, okay. Then we’ll have to change that in the –
E: So, I put Darus. I called it Darus in the material on the sort of website. But, I have never actually – I called him Dartus.
D: He has a name.
E: The Dart…
D: I’ll have to check that and make sure that um that it, that it is in fact changed everywhere.
E: Yeah.
D: But, the names are so close. If your family sees it, they’re going to figure it out pretty quick.
E: I know. I was going to say, “Well, I’m sorry it’s -” I don’t know. Oh, God.
D: Well, we can change it.
E: I told it to my ex-husband, my ex-husband about it, and he said, “Look, if they ever see it, they’ll know it’s you, but just point-blank deny it. And that’ll always be that one percent that they can’t pin it on you.” Oh, God.
D: Number one, they’ll never see it.
E: Yeah.
D: Number two, you’ll always have deniability that will always be there.
E: Yeah.
D: So, and they’re not going to want to believe it’s you.
E: Yeah. Yeah
D: But, number one, they’ll never see it. “It’s not, it’s not going to happen.”
E: Yeah.
D: I said confidently.
E: (laughs) The only danger is my dad might see it because he’s, he’s read your book, by the way, The Threat. And – God.
D: I know. Yeah.
E: Oh God.
D: It is a scary book. However um, I’ll tell you something, Emma. You, and Beth, and Wilma and others have been telling me things that are a lot scarier than…
E: Yeah.
D: …than what’s in that book now, I must say.
E: Yeah.
D: So, um, uh so the two guys are in there…
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: …and, and uh what happens next? I mean, are they next to you? Or are they, are they puttering around in there? Are they doing something, or are they concerned with you?
E: They were at the side. They were at the side. When I went inside, I think they might’ve been in the room already, and that guy, that little gray guy put me in there.
D: Oh, I see. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. But, somebody was sort of coming up from behind you.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm.
E: I wonder if they came in or whether they went passed. I’m not sure.
D: Okay.
E: We’re going over to the side of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: We’re just sit down on something.
D: Are you sitting next to the wall, or?
E: No. We’re sort of sitting on like – It was out in the middle space of the room. But. The light wasn’t so bright where we went. More dimmer light.
D: Okay.
E: Like, sitting down, and like those hybrid people are sitting down as well.
D: Mm hm.
E: The gray guy was there, but I think he just was standing there.
D: So, he’s, he’s observing or something?
E: Yeah.
D: Or waiting or whatever?
E: Mm-hmm.
D: Well, I, you’re sitting shoulder to shoulder, are you, or?
E: Um, no. They were sitting opposite me.
D: Oh, I see. So –
E: It’s like there’s something in between us…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and we’re looking down at it.
D: Hm. How close are you, are you to, to them? I mean, I know there’s something in between, but –
E: Pretty close. Like, maybe a meter or something away.
D: Oh, so you’re, you’re, you’re very close together. Yeah. Sure. So, are they sitting together, the two hybrid guys, or - ?
E: Um, one of them is like opposite me, and the other one is like – I don’t know if it’s like a circular arrangement, but he’s kind of more – He’s not like sitting directly next to the other guy. He’s more on the side.
D: So, you’re in a kind of little triangle or something.
E: Yeah. A kind of.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. So, what, then, is, is kind of between you?
E: The thing we’re looking down at.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s like my brain was hurting.
D: Huh.
E: They were showing me something. It was that guy that I know was showing me something. And that other little gray guy was just standing, looking.
D: Okay. Well, when you look down, are you looking at a, at a device of some sort, or?
E: It’s like a kind of a box, but it’s got like something in the top. You can sort of see something. I’m not sure what it was.
D: You’re not sure what it was? Okay. Well, does, does the hybrid guy say anything to you, I mean, in preparation for this?
E: Yeah. Yeah. Like, my head – My brain felt quite stressed.
D: Mm hm. You mean that’s what he said?
E: Um, no. I just kind of felt it.
D: Oh.
E: My head at some point. He was talking to me about um. Because I was recording, starting to record stuff that was happening to me…
D: Yes.
E: …and he was like talking about that. He showed me something. It’s almost like a city or something.
D: Mm.
E: Like, the image is dark. He said it’s going to be – Like, there was a disaster or something. He’s going to help. I think he kind of showed me things. Visual kind of stuff.
D: Mm hm. Now, you’re looking down.
E: Half, half the time I was looking down, but I was also looking at a lot some of the time at him because I can remember him looking at me and. I think quite a lot of the time he was telling me things when he was looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: And he wasn’t happy about, that I was recording things, and it was sort of – He was telling about some kind of thing that’s going to happen.
D: What, what, what is he saying about what’s going to happen?
E: It’s something that involved, a cit…a city. Some kind of disaster in a city or something. He was like showing me like the whole top of the area.
D: Mm hm.
E: All these buildings and things. I think I saw it in that box or something or. I’m not quite sure, but I just have this visual image of it.
D: Yeah.
E: They’re putting like a lot of – I think I felt like a lot of stress, stress feeling in my head.
D: Mm hm.
E: And that other guy was agreeing and saying that I shouldn’t do it. Like, there was going to be a disaster or something, and they were here to help. And it’s like um, like I mustn’t interfere with that kind of thing.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I would be interfering with – Like, it’s very important. Not to do anything to – It’s almost like destabilize it or something. Mess around.
D: Okay. Let me just change my tapes here. Sorry about that. So, there’s going to be a disaster, and they’re here to help, and you’re going to be interfering with that by, by recording your experiences.
E: Yeah. They were saying something about Justin. Like, it was like he was giving me a bad impression of him or something, and I like shouldn’t listen to him.
D: Justin?
E: Yeah. It’s because he is telling me I should record my experiences, and they didn’t like it. Saying that I shouldn’t listen.
D: Mm hm.
E: Mm he keeps showing me this city all the time. I think that, I think that guy that I know had been in my apartment sometime before because he was reminding me of something that happened.
D: I see. Sometime, you know, in the recent past, or?
E: Yeah. Like, a few months before.
D: What’s he sort of reminding you of?
E: Something kind of horrible that happened. I think it’s kind of like threatening me though. I think it would, they would do it again or something.
D: Is this that, you mean it has to do with the record?
E: Yeah.
D: You mean as early as 2001, they were threatening you about this record business?
E: Uh, yeah.
D: That means that they’ve been threatening you steadily for five years.
E: Yeah.
D: You know, they don’t give up, these guys. (laughs) They just, they just keep plugging along.
E: No wonder it’s been hard doing it.
D: Well, of course it’s been hard. It’s been especially hard recently because they’ve really wretched it up. But, they’ve been doing it for five years already…
E: Mm.
D: …and you’ve still managed to, to do it. It’s amazing. I think you ought to put that in the record.
E: Yeah.
D: That, that the…
E: Yeah.
D: …beings have been, you know, pressuring you sev…fairly severely not to write this. And you should also put in the record the fact that your counselor suggested that you begin to make a record of all these odd experiences.
E: Yeah. Are you there? The phone was like going out.
D: I’m still here.
E: Okay.
D: Should I?
E: I can hear you now. But, just for a minute, your voice was going.
D: Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Um, I might’ve dropped the phone a little bit.
E: Okay.
D: Ah.
E: Mm.
D: So, but, there’s going to be this disaster. Do, can you sort of see the disaster down there? I mean, is it - ?
E: No, but he was just showing me these buildings in a city, and like a lot of them looked white. Like, a very bright light on the buildings. It was like bleaching it all with white light or something on them.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, you could see it was a city of buildings.
D: Is it a recognizable city? I mean, is it (censored), or?
E: No. No. It was just recognizable as human.
D: I see.
E: A human city.
D: Mm. So, they’re making you feel guilty.
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: Now, what’s the guy who’s not your – who was the strange guy that – I mean, the unfamiliar guy, what’s he doing?
E: He was just sitting on the side, looking, and he was also like agreeing.
D: I see. Mm. But, the leader of the conversation is the one you know?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: I think one of the reasons I don’t like the guy very much is he can be extremely hard, and doesn’t really care.
D: And doesn’t really what?
E: Really care very much.
D: Oh. He doesn’t really care. Yeah. Mm. Well, no matter what relationship that you have had with him for all of your life, they are still focused on the program.
E: Yeah.
D: And that is their life. Their life is the program.
E: Yeah.
D: And from what we can tell – I may be wrong about this. I, I don’t know what they do in their downtime, you know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: But, every time that, that he deals with you or that anybody… any hybrid ever deals with a human, it’s related to the program.
E: Yeah.
D: So, that’s, that’s, that’s really the, the face that he presents, in a sense.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, are you, when you’re sitting there, do they give you a chance to talk? I mean, can you ask questions, can you say anything, or - ?
E: Not really. No.
D: Mm hm.
E: They’re mainly just saying those things, and I was having a lot of visual images and stuff…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and feelings. Like, they’re trying to make me feel like Justin was bad.
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah
D: So, I haven’t come into the picture and neither is Budd, but, but Justin is the guy who they’re after now.
E: Yeah. I had written Budd Hopkins a letter a few months ago before, but he hadn’t replied, and I hadn’t really expected to hear back from him.
D: Yeah.
E: So, it was mainly just Justin who was like encouraging me to write it.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. Because it was about a year before Justin sent you an e-mail.
D: In 2000 he sent me an e-mail?
E: 2002. It was quite a while before I made contact with you.
D: Yeah. Yeah. Mm hm.
E: I don’t think I – I think I hadn’t even like read your book or anything.
D: Yeah. Yeah Justin was very careful to not say who you were at the time and.
E: Yeah.
D: Then, you were using the word, the name Helen, as I remember.
E: Yeah. That was weird because like um. I was thinking of what name because, you know, I hate choosing names, and then this name Helen just came in my head. And then, I said to Justin, “What name?” and he said, “Oh. Helen,” (laughs) and I was just like, “Oh.” That’s was so weird.
D: (laughs) Well, you should’ve kept on using Helen. Helen is a perfectly fine name.
E: Mm.
D: See what, in terms of, of your website, you’ve got Emma and Emilia…
E: Yeah.
D: …and I keep thinking they’re only a letter apart or so…
E: I know.
D: …you know?
E: I chose Emma because it was the most common name, girl’s name in 2004. And then, I said to my sister, “Oh. What’s your favorite girl’s name?” and she said, “Emilia.” Oh.
D: (laughs) Well, still, you, you know, you might want to think about choosing a name that’s a little bit different.
E: Mm.
D: Although, Emma and Emilia –
E: Yeah. Emma and Emilia are –
D: Well, Emma and Emilia does sound like sisters.
E: Yeah.
D: A mother would name their kids Emma and Emilia. Two girls, you know? But um, but I, I think it’d just be easier for the reader to not have to think, “Let’s see. Which one’s Emilia, and which one’s Emma?” you know? That kind of stuff.
E: Yeah. And they might think we’re twins because, because I’m small, and she was tall, so we actually were the same height.
D: Oh, yeah, right.
E: And in all the drawings, I finally realized, “Oh, my God. They’re going to think we’re twins.” (laughs)
D: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You’re, You’re going to have to say that…
E: Yeah.
D: …in the text that she was taller.
E: Yeah. My younger sister. Yeah.
D: Mm hm. So um, anyway. That, that can all, that’s all tweaking stuff. You can, we can worry about that later.
E: Mm hm.
D: So um, uh, you’re sitting there in this room with this window
E: Yeah.
D: And they’re showing you how horrible things are going to happen, and they’re here to help.
E: Mm.
D: And, um.
E: They were really saying that they were here to help. Yeah.
D: Mm hm. And uh so, they’re, they’re trying to give a rationale for what they’re doing that is acceptable.
E: Mm.
D: Whether there’s going to be terrible things happening, whether they’re going to help, who knows? Unless, of course, they’re going to cause the terrible things to happen.
E: Yeah.
D: Which is – That’s the only way you can foretell the future as far as I’m concerned.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: But um, I, I wouldn’t place a lot of stock in that, to tell you the truth. Not right now, anyway.
E: No.
D: But, I would place stock in the fact that they want you to stop. Stop…
E: Yeah.
D: …your record back in 2001.
E: Yeah. I think they might’ve – The first time I drew a picture for my records was the picture I drew of Dartus I was going to send with the letter that I sent to Budd Hopkins.
D: Uh huh.
E: But it was just like a pathetic little picture which should’ve taken five minutes to draw it. It took me about four hours. I felt all this fear and that. And I was thinking, “Oh,” you know, because – The fear was probably because I was, you know, trying to remember him and all that, and I was going back to all of that stuff. But, now, I’m kind of wondering whether they actually paid me a visit at the time I was drawing it, and that’s why it took four hours.
D: I wouldn’t doubt that. Yeah that. That makes sense because sitting there for four hours for a five-minute drawing is just too long.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, you’d been, you’d have known it.
E: Yeah.
D: You, you’d have been able to account for the time, and fretting, and, and carrying on, and ringing your hands, and.
E: Yeah.
D: You know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: And doing it, and erasing it, and doing it, and erasing it, and doing it, and erasing it or whatever. I mean.
E: Mm.
D: It’d be, be an event. (laughs)
E: Mm.
D: Um, so, uh, do they, do they say or do anything else? I mean is there, is this…
E: Mm.
D: …the whole point of this, or does, does the image change?
E: Like, they were really hurting my brain. There was a really kind of quite stressful feeling in my head about it.
D: Mm. So, you’re getting tightening muscles up there, are you, or?
E: Um, no. I just sort of – I’m not quite, quite sure how to describe it, but maybe just had feelings of – Very, very stressful feelings.
D: Okay. Mm hm.
E: It might’ve had to do with that box. I was looking at it as well. There’s like a white light on it.
D: Oh I see.
E: I think I just looked at it now and then.
D: I think.
E: I was looking at the guy.
D: I’m sorry. You, say that again.
E: I was mainly looking at the guy, and then sometimes I just had looked down at the box…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and there was a white light on the top of it.
D: I see.
E: (pause) And he reminded me of something that happened a few months before in my apartment. It was like it would happen, happen again or something. I’m not sure what it was.
D: And he said it would never - ? I’m sorry.
E: He’s saying it was going to happen again or something. It was something quite stressful or –
D: So, he threatens that it might, it will happen again.
E: Yeah. (pause)
D: So, that’s the threat, then.
E: Yeah. I think, I think he was like dragging me around my apartment by my hair because like I just have this image. He was like reminding – Because I couldn’t remember it, but he was like reminding me of it.
D: Mm hm. This was all related to the record?
E: Mm. I had just – I had decided that I was going to finally look, look at it.
D: Mm hm. I see, okay.
E: He was saying that things are going to happen to my family and things. He was showing me like an image of my mother and saying that she was going to die or something.
D: Hm. And this is in 2001?
E: Yeah. I think it was back in 2001. I can remember having this feeling that somebody had threatened me about, about it.
D: Yeah.
E: I think that’s what it was.
D: That’s interesting. Very interesting. And they’re saying the same things. They’re still saying, they’re still threatening death to family members.
E: Mm.
D: So, they’ve been doing that on and off I would imagine for five years now.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, point accurate, whatever it is.
E: Yeah. That’s the thing. They must’ve known when I started because writing to Budd Hopkins was when I started…
D: Yeah.
E: …and they must’ve known.
D: Hm. Well, that puts a whole different slant on, on all sorts of things.
E: Mm.
D: So, what I’m, I’m, what people are telling me is not necessarily brand new.
E: Mm.
D: But it is still involved with threats to people who will, will be helping hybrids to assimilate.
E: Mm.
D: Yeah. Hm. Okay.
E: I remember having this strange kind of memory in 2001 of somebody saying that they were like going to drop me in the sea or something. I can, I told Justin about it, and uh I couldn’t sort of really understand it, but I, could, I could remember it.
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: Interesting. Very interesting. On how their minds work and how their modus operandi, you know? Their, their method of operation.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what happens next, then?
E: Mm. I saw this gray guy standing down. He was looking at me.
D: The little gray guy, you mean, or - ?
E: Yeah.
D: Well.
E: I think he kind of – More that he kind of took my arm. Because I think I had to stand up.
D: Oh I see.
E: I was walking out.
D: Are the hybrids walking out with you, or are they staying behind?
E: Yeah. They’re walking out as well.
D: Oh, okay. What happens next, then?
E: I can remember holding one of those babies.
D: They take you into a, a special room, or place, or?
E: Yeah.
D: You the only person in there, or?
E: Um, no. There’s some – There’s a guy. I see a guy in there as well.
D: Mm hm.
E: There might’ve been some other, some other people as well.
D: Once again, anybody you recognize by any chance, or?
E: No.
D: Okay.
E: This baby had quite big eyes looking at me. We’re eye to eye.
D: The hybrid guy’s looking at you?
E: No, the baby.
D: Oh. The baby’s looking at you.
E: Yeah.
D: How, how old is this baby, do you think?
E: I’d say it was several months old.
D: So, it’s, it’s a young baby.
E: Yeah. It was very intelligent. You could see, tell by the way it was looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: It was very um aware. I just know I quite liked it.
D: Is it a male, or a female, did you say, or?
E: I’m not sure.
D: Okay. Do they want you just to, to hold it, or?
E: Hm. Just to look at it.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s almost like it was saying things to me, but I’m not sure if that’s right. But, it was kind of – It was definitely um aware. It was a baby, but it was kind of intelligent.
D: Mm hm. Do they want you to hold the baby in any specific way, or?
E: Um. They just put it – This woman put it in my arm. It’s like lying down. Its head was on the left-hand side…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and its face was looking up at me.
D: I see.
E: And I just really liked it.
D: Mm hm.
E: It just had a nice kind of – It seemed like a nice person.
D: Okay.
E: It’s kind of innocent, but it was aware.
D: Right. Yeah. Where are the hybrids?
E: Mm. I think they were there, but I wasn’t sort of aware of them. There was this woman in front of me, and she put the baby in my arm.
D: Mm hm.
E: And there were like other people around as well.
D: Yeah. Oh I see.
E: They’re standing against the wall. They’re kind of like standing against the wall.
D: Mm hm.
E: The wall behind us. And like there were some other people further along, also, standing against the wall.
D: All, all holding babies, you mean, or?
E: Mm. I think so.
D: I see.
E: Some of them seemed to have hybrids around them. Maybe hybrid women because I can remember these long gowns.
D: Yeah.
E: There’s sort of quite a few hybrid women there because there were quite a few of them.
D: Mm.
E: Maybe about four or some.
D: About four of these caretakers?
E: Yeah, because there was one by me, and then there were two further along, and then they were, I think, there was another one even further along.
D: Mm hm. Are these caretakers male, or female, or?
E: It’s like females.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think.
D: Are they, are they um sort of…what we would call late-stage, they look really human, or middle-stage, or early stage?
E: Um…I’d say middle or early. Early-middle.
D: Mm hm.
E: They weren’t sort of – You wouldn’t…want to see them on the street or anything.
D: Right.
E: Their hair wasn’t so good.
D: Mm hm.
E: Not really normal.
D: Yeah.
E: We had to go out.
D: So, you just hold the one baby?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: I’m putting my clothes on. They took me in that room.
D: Mm hm.
E: Put my clothes on. (pause) Like, two hybrid people were in the room, in that like changing place.
D: They were there with you? I’ll be darned. Okay.
E: Yeah. They were in, they, they were in the place where the babies were as well.
D: Mm hm. But, they, they, they went into the dressing area, though.
E: Yeah. I can remember seeing them there.
D: Mm hm.
E: For a while. I think they have to come back with us.
D: Oh I see.
E: I kind of remember being back in my apartment.
D: Mm hm. Are they there with you, or - ?
E: Mm. Yeah. But, the gray guys are.
D: But, not the hybrids, or?
E: Yeah. The hybrids are there as well.
D: Oh, okay.
E: Actually, I don’t think they were both there. I think it was just that guy that I know was there. I think that other guy was in the changing room, but I don’t think he came in my apartment.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was standing in the room. There’s like light there. I think I could see like lights coming in the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) The guy was telling me to tear it all up. All my stuff that had notes that I took. I didn’t have many, anyway, but he said, “Tear them up.”
D: Did you tear them up, or did you?
E: No.
D: Good.
E: He’s telling me he’s my friend.
D: I’m sorry, they what?
E: He’s just saying that he, that he’s my friend.
D: He’s telling you that he’s your friend?
E: Yeah. He’s tell, telling me to tear, tear them up.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) I think when he left, I was sitting on the end of my bed.
D: Uh, I see.
E: The light, the lights went out.
D: That’s when the lights went out? Oh.
E: Yeah. And I could hear this roaring sound outside the window.
D: Hm.
E: (pause) I think I kind of knew that something had happened, but I couldn’t remember anything.
D: Yeah. Well, do you think we’ve sort of done this one, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think it’s over.
D: Okay. Well, Emma, what I’m going to have you do, and this sounds, I know this sounds terrible…
E: Yeah.
D: …but can you call me back? The…
E: Yeah.
D: …static on this end has gotten so bad that I’m, I’m actually also hearing little music in here and there.
E: Oh, my God. Okay. I’ll ring you back.
D: So, okay. Bye, bye. (pause) Hello?
E: Hi.
D: Okay
E: Is that better?
D: Yeah. Mm hm. How do I sound?
E: You sound good.
D: Okay. So, let’s then move to, to four and a half years later when they’re still doing this.
E: Mm hm, mm hm.
D: It’s just amazing to me.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, they are so persistent, and yet they have failed so much.
E: Yeah. I know. It just kind of shows that they can’t break you, eh? (laughs)
D: Right. It’s amazing that you’ve been able to withstand that for all this time.
E: Mm.
D: Yet, at the same time, they’ve gone about their business, they’ve introduced you to various people who, you know, you’ve helped and this and that, and so – But, still, they’re still trying to get you to stop. And, and uh and of course, they’ve really been applying the pressure recently, too.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, they’ve been – It sort of all stops out now that you’re putting this up on the website, I think.
E: Do you think they know? They probably do. They probably know.
D: Yeah. They pro… – Well, I don’t know. They might have you just – I don’t, I don’t know. I’m, I’m, I’m going to be purposely vague about all this right now.
E: Alright. You know that guy? When he left before, I just had this strange memory that he like kissed me before he left, and I just counted it as a no. I don’t know…
D: You mean?
E: …but, that might’ve happened.
D: You mean in 2001?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh. Well, he might –
E: Like, being a friend sort of thing. I don’t know, but it’s just – I don’t know.
D: Well, he might’ve done that. I don’t see why not. I mean…
E: Mm.
D: …you know, they, they, they still um are mainly human, and they, oh they want, they want to – You know, they want you to like them for various reasons.
E: Yeah. Probably. Yeah.
Session #20B
D: But um, let’s move sort of up to – Now, we’re just picking these things up at random but, but this one – I guess it started on the 7th. Now, this business about you’re reading through the pages that Beth put up.
E: Yeah. That was on a – I’ll just get my notes. It was on the…
D: I love these things.
E: …17th of February in my time, and that probably, it was at night. So, it would have probably been maybe the early hours of the morning on the 17th.
D: Well, I’ll just go by your time. Doesn’t matter. My, my time doesn’t matter.
E: Okay. Yeah, it was the 17th.
D: Mm hm. Well, on the 17th– What I received on the 17th was something where you said, “I think something might’ve happened last night,” which would be the 16th, the 17th. I don’t know. “I was reading (laughs)…
E: (laughs)
D: …through the pages that Beth had put up. And while I was doing it, I.”
E: Yeah. That’s the one. Yeah.
D: “- suddenly felt this strong presence around me. I had a feeling of being watched.
E: Yeah.
D: Jumping scared.” You logged off, and did other things…
E: Mm.
D: …and you sat down to do some work at 10:25.
E: Mm.
D: “Matt said someone knocked loudly on his door at 10:30.”
E: Mm. He said it was really loud.
D: “There’s some sort of disturbance that’s being caused by their appearance that Matt and, he was interpreting or is hearing as a knock.”
E: Yeah, because there’s no person on that damn video.
D: No. There is nobody there who’s knocking, and there’s no reason to knock.
E: No.
D: But, there’s some sort of – Something is happening…
E: Yeah.
D: …that is technologically - You know what I mean? There’s some technical business here…
E: Mm.
D: …that’s causing a door-knock sound.
E: Now, do you think it maybe have been what happened to Whit…Whitley Strieber? I mean, he heard that, those knockings that he thought was knocking. It might have been something similar.
D: It’s possible. It’s possible.
E: Yeah.
D: Although, he went off to, to, this whole thing about three knocks…
E: Oh, you think...
D: …and what three knocks meant.
E: … meaning in it and that. Yeah
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: But. But there’s no reason for it to happen at any time, you know? There’s no…
E: Yeah.
D: …knocking on a door is just not a concept. It’s not, as you know, it’s not. (laughs)
E: Yeah. (laughs)
D: That’s a, a certain politeness that prevents you from being arrested for breaking and entering, you know? I mean – (laughs)
E: (laughs) Mm. Yeah.
D: Uh but, um.
E: It sounds exactly like door knocking because like if you heard it, that on a DVD you know.
It’s. Do you think it sounded like door knocking?
D: Yeah. It did. Yeah.
E: Yeah. It’s weird.
D: Although, that I must say that the DVD was hard to…
E: Right.
D: …hard to, to, to hear. But, still, it’s.
E: Yeah.
D: It was.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Yeah. I don’t know what that is, but,
E: Mm.
D: I mean, it still does sound like there’s – It’s a. It sounds more like a byproduct as opposed to a purposeful event.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Because purposeful event makes no sense, and byproduct does in some way.
E: Yeah.
D: But, I don’t know how. I don’t know, I don’t know how, you know? And I don’t know whether they know it.
E: Right.
D: I’m not sure that they are aware of people hearing this knocking sound.
E: Yeah. That’s true. Yeah.
D: Mm. So. Well, anyway. So, there was all that, and then, and then there was something the next day, too, which you talked about. Well, you, you, your sort of began to remember this, this…
E: Mm.
D: …this smell, this, this fragrance, this odor, whatever it was.
E: Mm. A burning smell.
D: Yeah. A burning smell. And then, there was –
E: It was right above my bed because I was like in front of the computer, and it wasn’t there. And then, I went down to the door, and it wasn’t there. And I came back, and I was trying to track it down and it was right above my bed.
D: Right above your bed.
E: Yeah.
D: And it was just sort of staying there.
E: Yeah.
D: And the door was open.
E: The door was closed when I went down. But it should’ve been open.
D: Yeah.
E: And then, I opened it again.
D: And the. But, the point. The smell was still there above your bed.
E: Mm.
D: Once the…
E: Mm.
D: …air started to get in, it didn’t dissipate.
E: No. It did, it did finally, but not like instant. Not quickly.
D: I see.
E: Yeah.
D: Huh. Well, let’s see what that was, by golly. Now, Emma, just brace yourself since you know what these characters are like. I mean, they – and, you know, if they found out that you’re doing anything…
E: I know.
D: …that’s going to…
E: I know.
D: They’re going to apply, they’re going to be applying the screws even more, and you’re going to have more images, maybe, and God knows what they’re going to, you know they–
E: I felt really scared when I was – I don’t know why, but it was really like wrong, wrong, wrong to tell you about it.
D: Well, yeah. Right. Absolutely. That’s what they’re going to say to you. But, they’ve been. They were threatening to kill or death to your mother…
E: Mm.
D: …four and a half years ago. That’s…
E: Yeah.
D: …that’s what amazes me.
E: Yeah.
D: Huh.
E: Huh.
D: I’m going to have to go back and, and look at some of these violent episodes that have happened to people, but…
E: Yeah.
D: …which I put down as sexual aggression…
E: Right.
D: …in The Threat, and see whether or not any of that was connected with…
E: Right.
D: …talking to me, to tell you the truth.
E: Oh, wow. Yeah. They might’ve known that you were writing – That you write about them.
D: Or it. The key thing was not that they know, know that I was writing this, though they certainly might’ve known that, but the fact that, that the people were remembering it and telling it to me, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: That’s, that’s what gets them.
E: Yeah.
D: Oh, well, it’s. Listen. As Budd Hopkins and I have said for the past twenty years, especially me…
E: Mm.
D: …and it applies to everybody, including people who have had these experiences.
E: Yeah.
D: “Nobody said it was going to be easy.”
E: (laughs) I know, that’s true.
D: So, well, so you’re sitting, you’re sitting at the computer.
E: I was – Yeah.
D: And um it’s around 10:25, you said. Something like that.
E: Mm, no. When I was looking at the material – I prob…started looking probably about just before 8:00.
D: Oh, I see. And that’s when you suddenly felt a strong presence around you?
E: Um, at some point, I did. It was a bit later.
D: Um okay.
E: I sort of was okay in the beginning, and then I started to feel this presence. I feel like I’m being watched, and I still have this impression of like seeing a hybrid somewhere around. But I, I can remember even like wondering whether they were there, but they weren’t. (laughs)
D: Yeah. But, but you had that sense, though. I mean, there was –
E: Mm.
D: So.
E: A feeling I was being watched. It was weird.
D: Yeah. Huh. I, I, that’s. Well, normally, you know, in your situation, you, you sort of go with your, your, go with your gut, so to speak, if you, you know, get that pres…sense of presence.
E: Mm.
D: For most people in the world, when they get a sense that there’s a presence near them…
E: Yeah.
D: ...there isn’t.
E: Right.
D: But, for people who have had abduction experiences, when they get a sense that there’s a presence, there’s a greatly increased chance that there actually is, you know? So –
E: Mm. Do other abductees have that feeling as well?
D: Well, yes and no um.
E: Right.
D: I, I remember one woman knew that there was a presence around her, and then it was going to happen as soon as she went to sleep. So, she stayed up all night long. I think I told you this. And she stayed up literally for eight or nine hours, sitting in bed, waiting for it to come, and it never happened.
E: Right.
D: And she had her eye on the wall, on the clock, you know, the whole time.
E: (laughs) It probably saved her.
D: Well, it, it might have, but I think it was just in her own mind, and, and…
E: Right.
D: …and it was just her anticipation was, was, was really wrong and...
E: Yeah.
D: …people. You know, people think that they can, that if they stare at the back of somebody’s neck long enough, you know, the person will turn around and, and the answer is the person is not going to turn around. There’s been, there’s been a million tests that show that, that nobody knows that somebody’s staring at the back of their neck and all that.
E: Right, I see, yeah.
D: And um, uh. But, but for people who have had abduction experiences, that’s a whole different story.
E: Yeah.
D: …because you’re sensitized to things that, that have legitimacy.
E: Yeah.
D: In other words, you’re, you’re sensitized to something that is external as opposed to something that is just internal.
E: Mm. Yeah, and maybe remembering a presence is actually there, but because you can’t remember it, you think it’s – I don’t know. Yeah.
D: Well, yes, that could, that could be true also, obviously.
E: Yeah.
D: And it is a learning situation.
E: Yeah.
D: But, then again, it has been a lifelong situation, too.
E: Yeah.
D: So.
E: It’s so weird. I was reading, you know, like your two stories that you’ve got on your website of Laura and Becky.
D: Mm hm.
E: Oh, my God. It’s so similar. My friend read them as well, and he said, “Oh, my God.” But, you know, even stuff like, you know, one of them was, found herself stuff in the front yard. And you know, then, “Okay. Now I’ve found myself in the back yard,” and then the other woman said that she used to get lured outside, and it’s like, “Oh, my God.”
D: Right. Yep. Yeah, Laura is a, is a woman who’s now sort of – She’s got an awful disease, a, a, a lupus disease, which is
E: Oh?
D: …awful. And she’s sort of wheelchair-bound now, actually.
E: Oh, really?
D: Yeah.
E: That’s terrible.
D: But um.
E: That’s terrible.
D: Now, it’s, it’s just, it’s sort of – It, it’s human life, is what it is. It’s just, just what happens to people, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: But uh, but it’s been especially hard for her…
E: Yeah.
D: …because of all these other experiences as well. I asked her – I talked to her recently, and asked her if there’s been, you know – how much activity there’s been. And she says, “Well, it’s still going on,” because she’s not totally wheelchair-bound.
E: Yeah.
D: So, they, they’re, it’s still going on.
E: Oh, my God. That’s terrible.
D: So, you’re, you’re at the computer starting around 8 o’clock or so.
E: Yeah.
D: But, at one point, you start feeling um…
E: Yeah.
D: …there, there’s a presence around.
E: Yeah.
D: And you think that might about what time, did you say, or, or did you?
E: Um, I’m not, not sure, but it was a little time after I was – Like, I was reading this stuff that was on the, the pages that Beth had put up.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was just looking at them and thinking about, you know, how they looked and things, and then maybe it was not very long afterwards that I sort of felt this presence. I was almost like feeling nervous about it. Yeah.
D: I see. Okay
E: I almost have this kind of impression of like somebody grabbing me from behind or something.
D: While you were sitting there, or?
E: I was standing in front of the computer screen.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know. I just have this memory of somebody grabbing me from behind.
D: You mean a hard grab, or a light touch, or?
E: Like, they had their arms coming around from behind and grabbing me.
D: Hm. You mean around your waist, or?
E: No. Like, from around the top of my chest.
D: Oh. One person, or?
E: Um. Yeah. I think so. Like, he had his hand on my neck. Like, horrible.
D: Hm. What happens next, then?
E: I think they pushed me on the floor.
D: Mm hm.
E: I’m on the floor.
D: Okay.
E: I think there’s another one there as well. And there was another one on my sofa. There were three.
D: Three of them?
E: Yeah.
D: All males, or - ?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. (pause) So, they kind of push you to the floor.
E: It was that guy that I see all the time.
D: They what?
E: It was that guy that I know.
D: Mm hm.
E: He had that other guy that always comes with him.
D: You mean the other guy who accompanies him all the time?
E: Yeah. And then there was this other guy across the room.
D: Did you know him at all, or?
E: No.
D: Now, he’s the one who’s sitting on the couch, or he’s standing?
E: Yeah. He was by the couch.
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s looking at my stereo.
D: You mean they’re, they’re throwing you on the floor, and he’s looking at your stereo?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh.
E: I was on the floor, and I looked up, and I saw him. He was on the end of the couch, and the stereo is by the end of the couch, and he’s looking at the stereo.
D: I see. So, he’s not paying attention to what’s, to the festivities, so to speak?
E: No. (pause)
D: So, you’re lying on the floor. And what happens next, then?
E: That guy was like pushing me with his foot like. They’re going to move me out of the way and…
D: Mm hm.
E: He was grabbing me by my hair, and he made me stand up again, and he took me over to the bed. I had to get on the bed, and that other guy who was with him was looking at the computer screen.
D: Mm. What do you have on the computer screen?
E: It was the pages that Beth had put up. It was like the events, the, my, the early events that happened…
D: Mm hm.
E: … on the screen. That other guy was like really angry with me. Like, he like grabbed me by my face and was really angry.
D: This is the other guy, not, not your personal-project guy?
E: No, this was the one, the one that I always see.
D: Oh I see the personal.
E: Yeah. The younger one was standing, looking at…
D: Mm hm.
E: …the computer. He was saying that they told, told me not to do it.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) He was just like saying that I was, I’m going, I’m going to die and all that. That I should just listen to them.
D: Well, do they understand, do they understand what it means to put it on the computer? Do they?
E: I don’t know, but that other guy was doing something with the keyboard.
D: Hm.
E: He wasn’t doing a lot, but he did touch the keyboard.
D: Okay.
E: It wasn’t like he was typing, but he was like, he did touch some things.
D: Maybe he was trying to scroll down or something. Who knows?
E: Maybe. And the other guy is getting up. He’s coming over.
D: The guy from the couch, or the?
E: Yeah. He was going over to the computer. They’re both looking at it, and he’s also really angry. He’s looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: That guy that I see all the time was just saying that –
D: I’m, I’m sorry. I didn’t quite hear that.
E: That guy that I see all the time was talking to me while they were looking at the computer.
D: Mm hm.
E: He was telling me about something that was going to happen, but I can’t really remember what it was.
D: Something is going to happen to you, or something is going to happen to your family, or something is going to happen to me, or something is going to other people, or?
E: He was, he was saying that like I was going to die, and that he was going to hurt me, and I should listen and all that. But, it was more, much more than that. It was like real serious, serious.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I was going to be responsible for things.
D: Mm hm.
E: It was like they were going to kill you, and they were going to kill Beth. They must know.
D: They used her name?
E: I, I think they – I must, I don’t know if they used her name or whether they – I was just aware it was her. They must know.
D: Hm.
E: I don’t think they used her name, but it was like I think I just had an awareness.
D: I see, okay.
E: And there was somebody else they were going to hurt as well.
D: Somebody else?
E: I can’t remember.
D: Well, we’re sort of the gang of three.
E: Yeah. They must know. They must know about it.
D: They must’ve found out earlier. They must’ve.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean because we’re doing something that happened, you know, real late, so they…
E: Yeah.
D: …and we’ve been diddling with this for a week or so, or a couple of weeks or whatever it is, and so…
E: Yeah.
D: …they must’ve found out at one time earlier.
E: Yeah.
D: Hold on a quick second. I dropped something here. Okay, got it.
E: They were showing me like images of you.
D: Mm hm. Is it actually me, or?
E: It’s probably not. It’s just awareness, I think.
D: Oh.
E: Just knowledge. I think – I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t think they actually said your name or anything.
D: Mm hm.
E: But it was just knowledge it was you.
D: Okay. What kind of images are they?
E: Of you being hurt. Like, having blood on your head.
D: Mm hm.
E: They’re showing me a woman sitting in front of a computer, so I think they must have taken images or something that were in my own head or something.
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: So that, you mean, this would be the Beth image?
E: I suppose. Probably my conception that there’s a woman, you know?
D: Well, what, what does she look like?
E: Um, um. It’s not really visual. I think it’s just awareness.
D: Okay. But, it was visual with me. I mean, there was blood, head, and all that stuff.
E: Yeah. It was more visual with you.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. And they, they also showed me you floating in water.
D: (laughs) Okay.
E: They always do that.
D: It’s the oddest damn thing.
E: Yeah. It was like he was saying that like someone was going to like hit you on the head with a phone or something, and like your head was bleeding. (laughs)
D: Gosh.
E: I’m sorry. I know it’s just what they’re doing. It’s stupid enough.
D: It’s such an odd thing. It’s – (pause) Well, they have two methods of intimidation. They…
E: Mm.
D: …they um you know, it’s threats against family. Well, three methods threats against you, threats against family, threats against friends…
E: Mm.
D: …and imagery to go with it.
E: Yeah.
D: That’s the one method. Then, the second method is pushing you to the floor and grabbing you, pulling your hair, pressing your face…
E: Mm.
D: …you know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: But, what’s interesting is that they’re not actually – You know, like when a husband beats up his wife, they, he bangs her around, and he actually hits her with a fist and all that.
E: Mm hm. It causes injury and that…
D: Yeah but.
E: …and they don’t seem to. No.
D: Yeah. They don’t do that. But, I’ve never seen that, I’ve never seen that happen.
E: No.
D: You know, I don’t know if they know that that’s…
E: Yeah.
D: …that’s sort of human aggression in an industrial society, anyway.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: They have this sense of what they should be doing that’s effective that’ll be effective for them.
E: Yeah.
D: And they just keep doing it over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.
E: Yeah
D: And then, it doesn’t work. And then these, I mean, they just do it again.
E: You’d think they’d change some tactic. (laughs)
D: You’d think. But, if they’ve been, started doing this in 2001…
E: Mm.
D: …they’ve been doing it over, and over, and over, and over again.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s the oddest thing.
E: Yeah.
D: It is odd. I mean, it’s a…
E: I know.
D: …it’s a battle that they’re steadily losing.
E: Yeah, because I sent you an e-mail after I finished looking at it. And I did feel bad (laughs) but I was still able to send and write it.
D: Yeah. And you told me you felt bad in, in the e-mail.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: And um, I guess or, or, or, one of those e-mails. But, but…
E: Yeah.
D: …the point is that, that, that they don’t change tactics.
E: No. They don’t have even, even a human being would know to change.
D: “This isn’t working. We’ve got to try something else,” you know?
E: Yeah.
D: “Figure something else out.” So, it’s really weird.
E: Maybe it’s as much as they can do.
D: It could be. This, this could be the limits. But, you have to understand, you have to figure out also that they don’t have a lot of experience with this.
E: No.
D: The vast majority of people, maybe all of them (laughs)…
E: Yeah.
D: …are compliant all the time…
E: Yeah.
D: …you know? I mean, you’ve got a handful of people who’ve gone forward into the, into the press, and then to, have written books, and this, and that, so you’re dealing maybe with thirty individuals, maybe forty around the world. That’s, that’s not a whole lot of people to have experience with when um you’re dealing with millions.
E: Yeah. That’s true. Yeah.
D: So, even if it’s a hundred people, it’s still, it’s, it’s statistically insignificant.
E: Yeah.
D: And, and if it’s a hundred people, then you, the, the, the people who you’ve been working with…
E: Mm.
D: …the chance of them having somebody else who’s doing this is going to be close to zero.
E: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
D: So, they’re just not going to have any experience in it.
E: No.
D: So, the word is, “This is how you -” and, and that means that the gray aliens, the supervisors, and the, the, you know, the pecking…
E: Mm.
D: …order above them who are telling them what to say and how to do it…
E: Yeah.
D: …they don’t have any experience with it either. But, they’ve figured out, “This is what scares humans.”
E: Yeah.
D: And so, this is what they do over, and over, and over again. As you said, as, as they – Well, they, I, I don’t want to put anything in your mind too but, but they do follow rules.
E: Yeah.
D: So…
E: Yeah.
D: …there’s, there’s not a lot of flexibility here. There’s not a lot of creativity.
E: No. It’s just a poor understanding of people, eh?
D: No. No understanding of people. And therefore, very little room to maneuver because that understanding isn’t there.
E: Yeah.
D: Huh.
E: Yeah.
D: So, you’re seeing all these awful, awful scenes of me dead, and, and your own death, and, and death of somebody else who you know…
E: Mm.
D: …and all that…
E: Mm.
D: …and, and they’re really angry. And you’re, and they’ve got you on the bed now. Is that right?
E: That guy has, yeah.
D: That.
E: The other two are by the computer.
D: That’s right. So it’s, this is your personal-project hybrid. This is…
E: Yeah.
D: …We ought to have a name for him so we can just identify him right off.
E: What do you think?
D: Um. What does he look like to you when you look at him? What, what name should he have?
E: Um. I don’t know. I hate choosing names.
D: Well, so do I but, but it’s just easier to know this one is – You know, instead of saying, “Personal-project hybrid,” which is cumbersome.
E: (laughs) Um, I’ll call him Darus. (laughs) It’s just suits him that…
D: How about, how about.
E: I don’t know.
D: How about a real name, but, but, but, but suggestive of it? How about Derrick?
E: (laughs) I don’t know, okay. He doesn’t seem like a Derrick to me.
D: Well, it’s got a “D” and an “E”. It’s got a, a hard consonant like Dartus, you see what I mean?
E: Mm.
D: It’s got um…
E: (laughs)
D: …I don’t know. Whatever.
E: Yeah.
D: You can, you can pick the name. I don’t want to pick a name for you.
E: I could call him Jarrod. I feel like swearing when I think about it. Oh,
D: Well.
E: Oh God.
D: You can call him anything you want. I mean, you can call him Shithead if you want, that’s…
E: (laughs) I do that so often.
D: That’s as good as any. (laughs)
E: (laughs) Nick’s gone away.
D: Yeah. You mentioned that in your e-mail. But, he might’ve gone on a holiday. Although, it is odd that he only gets that one piece of mail.
E: Um, and, and the only mail he got was like the utility bill.
D: So, he doesn’t have friends that write him. Of course, he might be writing them on e-mail all the time for all you know.
E: He just doesn’t have any contact with people ever at his home, anyway.
D: It is strange.
E: Mm.
D: It is strange even if he’s just a normal guy.
E: Yeah. He’s, he’s weird. I mean and he’s normal. I don’t want to judge him. I mean, people are different.
D: Yeah, right.
E: But, it is weird.
D: But, it is strange. It is strange. Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s a strange situation.
E: Yeah.
D: But, you don’t know what kind of a life he’s got outside of the apartment.
E: Right.
D: You know, maybe he’s a member of some community, maybe he’s a member of some sort of religious sect and his whole life’s in love with it. Who knows. You know?
E: Maybe yeah.
D: So.
E: Yeah.
D: However, the next thing you have to do is you have to hire a, a car and follow him wherever he goes. (laughs)
E: (laughs)
D: Anyway, I’m sorry. I’ve gotten you off the track here. But. So, so they’re all angry, and um, and, and Derrick…
E: (laughs)
D: …is putting these awful images in your mind.
E: Mm.
D: …and um whereas the other two guys are still looking at the computer.
E: Mm. I suppose they can read?
D: Yeah. They can probably read. Yeah.
E: Uh.
D: Well, they know what it is, obviously.
E: Yeah.
D: So, therefore, they have to be able to read because – Unless, unless they’re looking at pictures. Are there illustrations up on the computer, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Because they could be looking at the illustrations.
E: Oh, okay. Yeah.
D: Mm.
E: Because it was about the first time that I saw her sketches. Or, they had just gone on, anyway.
D: Yeah.
E: Well, that’s interesting. That is interesting.
D: Well, they probably can read anyway.
E: Yeah.
D: This. So, what happens next, then?
E: Um. I think they know about Beth because they were saying that they were going to kill her.
D: Oh. She’s the other one?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: It’s like I’m going to be responsible. They were saying that they’re going to hurt her, and they’re going to kill her…
D: Mm hm.
E: …um, and they’re going to kill you.
D: Mm hm.
E: I would be responsible for a lot of people. He’s hurting all these people.
D: Mm hm.
E: I mustn’t do it. He’s really and then saying that it was really, really bad. And nobody must know. I mustn’t tell anybody and all that kind of thing.
D: Mm hm.
E: Then they were going to kill my dad.
D: That’s a new one.
E: Yeah. Yeah. He’s just really angry. He’s, he asked me why I did it, why I’m doing it. Why, why did I, it’s like, “Why?” Why did I do it?
D: Mm hm.
E: I just, I couldn’t really think properly.
D: Do you come up with an answer, or - ?
E: Mm. Nothing coherent. I couldn’t really think. I think I felt something, but I couldn’t really think.
D: Okay.
E: He was saying that I was really bad. Really, really bad. He’s saying he’s going to hurt me and all that kind of thing. He’s just asking me if I want to die, and I’m going to die.
D: Mm hm. Well, like I said, brace yourself for, for this thing. You just sort of know it’s going to happen, you know? I mean, this, this onslaught from them.
E: Yeah. He’s saying they won’t let me do it.
D: Hm. But, they haven’t (laughs) they haven’t been too successful yet.
E: No.
D: You’ve already done…
E: I know.
D: …you know, a, a chunk of it, and –
E: Mm. They can’t stop me now because if I feel bad I just know what it is. I just don’t take any notice anymore.
D: Mm hm.
E: That guy who was by the stereo –
D: The number three guy?
E: Yeah. He went back over there and he was looking at something there. He seemed interested in the stereo for some reason.
D: You think he’s going back to look at it again, huh?
E: Yeah. And that other guy is turning now, he’s looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he came over, and he was like also saying some things to me.
D: This is number two guy or number three guy?
E: Yeah. It was the, the guy who’s always with the other one.
D: The colleague. The friend.
E: The colleague. Yeah. The apprentice.
D: Right.
E: The one. My one that was like going away he was going to look at the computer.
D: Mm hm. So, what does the guy who come, the apprentice say when he comes over to you?
E: He’s just scary. Like, he’s showing me that they really mean it. Like, they’re not going to let me do it and…
D: Mm hm.
E: …like, they’re going to kill me and stuff. Like, like he knows. Like, he’s really telling me he’s going to do it. It’s just scary.
D: Mm hm.
E: He wasn’t as aggressive as the other one, but he’s kind of more scary.
D: Yeah.
E: (pause) He’s saying that they know where you are, and they’re going to hurt, they’re going to kill you. They know all, all about it. They know, like they know everybody. They know where people are. They’re going to stop – Like, I mustn’t do it. He was saying like my dad again. It’s like they were saying that they know where people overseas and that are as well. Like…
D: Mm hm.
E: …it doesn’t matter how far they, away they are.
D: It’s dubious. Very dubious.
E: Mm. And he was just saying I’m going to hurt a lot of people, things. That guy who was by the stereo went back. He was looking at the computer again with the other guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) He was like taking my – I had like these shoes on. He’s taking my shoes off.
D: Mm hm. This would be Derrick, or number one, or the apprentice?
E: No. The apprentice guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: I’m just really scared. A really scary guy.
D: It sounds pretty –
E: I think they were. Sorry?
D: What’s that?
E: What was that?
D: Oh. That was probably my pen. I, I moved my phone and…
E: Oh, okay.
D: The pen hit it. But, it was scary at the time. It sounds horrible. And then, a few minutes later, you’re thinking to yourself, “What just happened?”
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, in other words, they don’t have the tactic of allowing that fear to lapse over into your normal life or would do some good, so to speak, for them.
E: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Because he can’t process the memory, so it encapsulates it and stops me thinking that.
D: It, it’s, it, it, that’s exactly right.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s the damndest thing.
E: Yeah.
D: So, anyway, he’s taking your shoes off, and you’re obviously frightened. You know, I mean because you’re completely – There’s nothing you can do. You’re, you’re…
E: Mm.
D: …you have no way of fighting back, or you were going to answer him back?
E: No. He’s taking my trousers off.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think those people could read because I could see the material moving on the screen.
D: You mean they’re scrolling?
E: Yeah. I think they were like scrolling because and I could see it wasn’t just like one picture.
D: Mm hm. Oh, you could see the pictures going down.
E: No, I could see the – I wasn’t really kind of fully aware of what was on it, but I could see move, movement on it.
D: Yeah. So, are they using the keyboard, or are they using the mouse?
E: I think – I’m not sure. I saw the one of them using the keyboard in the beginning, but I’m not quite sure…
D: Mm hm.
E: …because after that, it wasn’t so easy to look at what they were doing.
D: Yeah, sure.
E: And that other guy was coming over.
D: Mm hm.
E: That guy who was by the stereo.
D: He’s coming over to you?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh but, he went over to the computer.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Now he’s coming over to you?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: It was horrible. He’s also telling me that I’m going to die.
D: He says this, too?
E: Yeah. He’s like making me feel like I was really, really bad.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was going to die. He’s just like – Like, they’re going to stop me.
D: The thing to do…
E: Yeah.
D: …is send us all the stuff that you possibly can as soon as you possibly can and tinker with it later. You can, just as long as we…
E: Yeah.
D: …have the stuff, we can always put it on in oh, in an acceptable form that everybody will like because Beth is really good at it.
E: Yeah.
D: And then, you don’t have to have it there.
E: Yeah.
D: You know, they can’t, you, you, they can’t be in a position, then, of stopping you.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s out of your hands at that point.
E: Yeah.
D: See what I mean?
E: Yeah. I’ll try and do it as fast as possible.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: And just as long as we have it. And then, you can mess with how, how you want it to…
E: Mm.
D: … look and all the rest of that stuff.
E: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That other guy that I see a lot, he’s coming over, and he’s showing me like really frightening things like from the past. Like, it’s kind of hard, hard to remember, but feelings.
D: Well, before he came over. I mean…
E: Yeah.
D: …you’re laying there on the bed with your shoes off and your pants pulled down?
E: Yeah. They were off. I took them off.
D: Oh they’re off.
E: That guy took them off.
D: Okay. So, none of them have done any sexual stuff yet, or am I wrong?
E: I don’t know. I don’t know.
D: Okay. Now, Emma, um were you wearing underpants?
E: Yeah.
D: Um. Did you wash the underpants?
E: Um. I probably, probably have.
D: Even though it was yesterday?
E: I might not of. I’ll go and look in the laundry. But, I don’t know which ones. I can have a look.
D: Have a look. Put it in a plastic bag if you find the ones. If there’s, is there going to be intercourse involved here? Are they going to take advantage of you, so to speak?
E: I don’t know.
D: Okay. Well let’s find out if there is first, and – So, he starts to show you frightening things from the past.
E: Yeah.
D: Such as - ?
E: He was fright… he was making me feel very, very scared, and I could remember having those feelings before.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, I don’t remember when, or how, or what it was. I just remember the feeling.
D: Hm.
E: I hadn’t. It was just like he was just making me feel really, really scared. But it was not verbally. It was just a feeling, awful. It was like – Yeah. And he wasn’t even like looking really close. He was looking at me from the end of the bed.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like it…I kind of could, kind of remember something, but it might’ve been something he told me before or something.
D: I see.
E: He was just saying that they’re not going to let it happen. That it’s like too far, too much or something.
D: It’s like too far for what, did you say?
E: It’s like it’s too much, or it’s like it’s too – Like, it’s over the limit. Like, too. It’s unacceptable. That other guy is like taking my top off. (pause) I think, I think they just do some kind of sexual thing as well.
D: Which one?
E: I think it was that guy by the – The guy who was by the stereo.
D: The number three guy?
E: Yeah.
D: Do you get a chance to look at his body at all?
E: Um.
D: In other words, does he have any…
E: A little bit, yeah.
D: …does he…
E: Yeah.
D: …have any bodily hair on him?
E: Mm. Not really.
D: Any pubic hair, did you notice, or?
E: I don’t really notice.
D: Is he…
E: I mainly remember his face.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, I don’t really notice.
D: Anything unusual about his face, or?
E: Yeah. His eyes were quite unusual. He had blue eyes, but they’re quite big. So, um, the iris part of them is quite big.
D: Hm. Would he be able to pass if he were to walk around, or?
E: Um. Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um, they all would.
D: Yeah.
E: He had different clothes. The other ones had like these beige clothes on, but he had like dark trousers and like a blue top.
D: Hm. But, the others had beige clothes on.
E: Yeah. They had like trousers and tops, but they were like beige.
D: Yeah. You’ve mentioned that before, I think.
E: Yeah. It’s like a lot of them seem to wear them.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) I think the one that I know a lot is back by the computer, looking at it.
D: You mean Derrick?
E: Yeah. Derrick.
D: So, he’s staring at the computer now.
E: Yeah.
D: He’s probably getting himself angry again.
E: Mm.
D: You know what’s, what’s interesting is that they don’t seem to know how much this is already out in the public.
E: Yeah, the phenomenon.
D: Right.
E: Yeah.
D: And there’s – I mean it’s we’ve, we’ve, and there’s been books written about this subject now for, for…
E: Yeah.
D: …for forty years.
E: Yeah. I don’t know. That’s interesting, eh? They just maybe see the world through abductees’ eyes mainly.
D: Yeah. That’s probably true. Yeah.
E: Yeah. Um.
D: They also seem to think – They, they have this tremendously exaggerated sense of the impact that something like this will have on people.
E: Mm. Like, most people will, will just go “Oh what a lot of rubbish”.
D: Yeah. Exactly. That’s unfortunately true.
E: Yeah. (inaudible) Maybe they. They just don’t want anyone to think about it.
D: Yeah. I mean you have to remember that the Barney and Betty Hill story is known to everybody in the country - in the United States, anyway. It’s just one of those well-known events in the world in terms of this phenomenon.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, there was, there was a book written about it. It was, that was a best-selling book. There was a, a movie made about it. I mean…
E: Yeah.
D: …it, it, it’s – You know, it’s everything. Now, what I’m going to do here is I’m going to keep talking – Well, no. I can’t do that. I’ve got to – Two things are happening at once. My, I’ll wait till the tapes run out. Actually, what I’ll do is I’ll change the tapes now. No, I won’t. I’ll wait for a second. I’ll see which one’s out first, and then I’ll change the tapes because my, I think my recorder is about to run out, also. But, my little digital recorder.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. So, so you think that, so he, he, the guy, he’s over there now at the computer.
E: Mm.
D: Our friend Derrick.
E: Mm.
D: And he, what, what’s happening with the other two guys?
E: That other guy was just sitting on the couch. The second guy. And the other third guy was basically on my bed.
D: On top of you, in other words.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, if you can dig up the underpants, without even thinking about it.
E: Mm.
D: Just put them in a plastic bag, put them in an envelope, and then just send them off to me.
E: Okay.
D: That would be greatly appreciated. Do not even think about it.
E: Right.
D: Just do it automatically.
E: Yeah.
D: No fuss, no muss.
E: Yeah.
D: And don’t think about it afterwards, either.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what happens next, then?
E: That guy I know came over.
D: Mm hm.
E: And he was telling me to get out. Like, I had to put my clothes on.
D: This is the number two guy?
E: No. The Derrick guy.
D: Oh.
E: And he was like– Yeah. I had to get my clothes on.
D: Okay. So, you pull up your underpants and your trousers, and put your shoes back on?
E: Mm hm. Everything. Everything on.
D: Okay
E: And he’s grabbing me by my hair. He’s taking me over by the computer. He’s just saying like, “I’m not going to let it happen.”
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s really mad. They went out the door, front door. Went down the passage.
D: Okay. Whoops. Hang on a second here now I just want to change this tape. Okay. There’s one, and here’s the other. Okay. Sorry about that. So, he’s got you by the hair, and he’s forcing you to look at the computer and saying he’s not going to let this happen.
E: Mm. They went out.
D: Mm hm. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Then. Yeah. You got dressed, and you all, you all went out.
E: Just they went out. I was just by the computer, but they went down the passage to the door.
D: Oh, they didn’t take you. I thought they were taking you.
E: No. They just left me there, and then they went out.
D: Oh. They had you get dressed so that you wouldn’t know that they were there.
E: Yeah. Probably.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm.
E: I could sort of – I couldn’t remember, but I could, I felt really bad. I could feel that like presence. Like I saw him, I have images in my head of seeing them, but I wouldn’t, couldn’t really remember.
D: Yeah.
E: There was this burning smell in the room.
D: Huh. Now, had they – When you were lying on the bed there…
E: Mm.
D: …had they, did they light anything? Did you get, see any?
E: I don’t know. But, when I think about the burning smell, I keep thinking about that guy that I always see looking at me from the end of the bed. And he was making me feel really, really scared.
D: Yeah.
E: And, for some reason, I associate it with that. But, I don’t know why. It was almost like I saw a light or something.
D: Mm hm, yeah.
E: I thought I could see like light in his eyes or something, but I maybe saw a light. But, I was like really, really scared.
D: Uh huh.
E: I don’t know.
D: But, it’s not like he’s lit something on fire and said something to the point of, “This is what’s going to happen to you,” or something like that. You know what I mean?
E: Mm. No. I don’t remember that, but I remember like his eyes were like – It was like light in them, or I saw some light somewhere.
D: Maybe there’s some sort of electrical discharge in the room.
E: Yeah.
D: That had to do with just their being there in some way. Although, I’ve never heard of that before, but.
E: Mm.
D: Did you see any smoke or anything? Was there any?
E: No. It makes me wonder whether I might’ve seen some light above me because normally, when he makes, when he makes me feel really scared, he’s got his face right up against mine.
D: Right yeah.
E: But, he wasn’t. He was standing at the end of the bed, looking at me from a distance, and it did feel different. And I could see this like light in his eyes, but I wonder whether there might’ve been a like light above me. Like, a ball of light.
D: You mean reflecting off his eyes?
E: Yeah. I think it might’ve been like a ball of light above me, and I could see it…
D: Huh.
E: …something in his eyes. Yeah. Something that was – I don’t know. I don’t know. But, it made me feel really scared.
D: Yeah. And then, they left you with that residual smell because you had no idea what it was.
E: Mm. But, I know that when I was smelling where it was, it was above the bed.
D: Yeah. Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: Right where, where, where that ball of light might’ve been.
E: Yeah. It was kind, it was kind of there.
D: Huh.
E: And I can remember when I was smelling it, I was looking – It was above the bed. It was kind of.
D: I don’t know what that is.
E: Hm.
D: I mean I know, we’ve, balls of light that have been in the room are something that’s extremely common…
E: Yeah.
D: …with abductions and with UFO events. In fact…
E: Yeah.
D: …in our que… in the questionnaire that I have, you know…
E: Yeah.
D: …I ask people if they’ve ever seen unusual lights or balls of light that they don’t know the origin of in their room.
E: Hm.
D: Well, did, and did it just dissipate, or did…
E: I’m not sure.
D: …it pop, or did it?
E: I’m not sure.
D: Hm.
E: I think, I think it just went out.
D: I see, okay.
E: Because I can mainly, I mainly remember looking at a light.
D: But, the interesting thing is that it had a different feeling…
E: Yeah.
D: …related to distance.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Hm. So, for maximum effect, they’ve got to get real close to you. And then, what you get is a minimizing effect the further away they are…
E: Yeah.
D: …I would imagine.
E: Yeah. Because when they’re up really close, it is. It’s really strong. I was a little scared.
D: But, it does show you, also, the limits of their abilities. I mean, their abilities are infinitely more than our abilities, of course…
E: Yeah.
D: …but there are limits.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm, I don’t know what that light was or why it was in there.
E: Maybe that’s why he was keeping back. Maybe it would do some damage or something.
D: Well, is there, is there any damage that was done in the room? Was there any…
E: No.
D: …any mark on the ceiling, or the wall, or anything, or?
E: No. Nothing. Just that smell.
D: Mm hm.
E: And the smell kind of stayed in that place. It didn’t move around or anything. It didn’t float through the flat.
D: Right. Yeah. So odd. Now, you didn’t wake up with singed hair or anything like that, or - ?
E: No. No.
D: Huh. Okay. Now, this was all on the 17th. But then…
E: Hm.
D: …right after that, then – Well, that’s when you got up, then, I guess, and you –
E: I just kind of was looking for the smell. I’m wondering what caused it, and I was feeling nervous and that. And then, I just felt, “Ah,” you know? A just nervous feel, you know? And then, I just sent you an e-mail.
D: Yeah.
E: My ideas about what I was thinking about…
D: Right
E: …and that was it.
D: But, you said you, you woke up at 7:00. Oh, that was, that was the night, that was earlier. Your trou…trousers were down around your ankles, and you probably felt like you had sex. That was the day before.
E: The next day, I went to sleep in the afternoon.
D: Well, this was the day where – “Where is that smell? Where is that smell?”
E: It was on the 17th. It was at night.
D: Actually, I’m just missing a page here. Here it is. Yeah.
E: And that, I was smelling the smell not long before I logged off because I remember because I had been wondering if it was the computer, and I was thinking, “Oh. Well, I’m almost finished on it, so -” But, it wasn’t the computer anyway.
D: Right. Yeah. And you said, “I think something might have happened this evening.” Now, this is afterwards, is it not? “I sent you some e-mails this afternoon about the events last night, and after I sent you – It was around 4:00. I had to go on, to go and lie on my bed.”
E: It was the next afternoon the next day.
D: Okay. Now, that was the next day. Now, I assume you’re wearing different under, underwear and all that?
E: Yeah.
D: Knickers as…
E: Yeah.
D: …as you say. Okay.
E: Hm.
D: Okay. You woke up twenty minutes ago at 8:00. You went to sleep in the afternoon at 4 o’clock, and then, you woke up at 8 o’clock.
E: Mm.
D: After four hours sleep, and you felt exhausted and um.
E: The computer monitor light was on when I woke up.
D: You had a red welt on your cheekbone.
E: On each, on each cheekbone. It was weird. Like, one on each.
D: The usual pain. And, and then, that’s when you went to look at the, the dial-up usage.
E: Mm No. I looked at the dial-up usage a bit later, I think.
D: Oh I see, okay.
E: Or, maybe I did. I don’t know.
D: And.
E: I thought it was beforehand that I looked at the dial-up usage.
D: Oh I see.
E: I’m not sure.
D: Yeah. Because you, you wrote me one February 18th, and then you said – You know, you talked about the…
E: Yeah.
D: …8 o’clock. And then, you wrote me one later.
E: Yeah. I think I had been looking at the dial-up usage before, probably.
D: Oh okay.
E: And then, I had to go and lie down. And then, I was asleep for four hours.
D: Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Before 4 o’clock.
E: Yeah.
D: Then, you said, “I sent you an e-mail last night after I had been looking at the material, and I sent it about 9:50. So, I probably stopped looking at the website material not long before then.”
E: Mm.
D: So, this was – Now, this little bit is what you’re talking about in terms of what we just did.
E: Yeah.
D: “So it was possible I was looking at the material for about an hour, one and a half hours, or three quarters of an hour. I’m not sure.”
E: Mm.
E: Yeah. That was on a – I’ll just get my notes. It was on the…
D: I love these things.
E: …17th of February in my time, and that probably, it was at night. So, it would have probably been maybe the early hours of the morning on the 17th.
D: Well, I’ll just go by your time. Doesn’t matter. My, my time doesn’t matter.
E: Okay. Yeah, it was the 17th.
D: Mm hm. Well, on the 17th– What I received on the 17th was something where you said, “I think something might’ve happened last night,” which would be the 16th, the 17th. I don’t know. “I was reading (laughs)…
E: (laughs)
D: …through the pages that Beth had put up. And while I was doing it, I.”
E: Yeah. That’s the one. Yeah.
D: “- suddenly felt this strong presence around me. I had a feeling of being watched.
E: Yeah.
D: Jumping scared.” You logged off, and did other things…
E: Mm.
D: …and you sat down to do some work at 10:25.
E: Mm.
D: “Matt said someone knocked loudly on his door at 10:30.”
E: Mm. He said it was really loud.
D: “There’s some sort of disturbance that’s being caused by their appearance that Matt and, he was interpreting or is hearing as a knock.”
E: Yeah, because there’s no person on that damn video.
D: No. There is nobody there who’s knocking, and there’s no reason to knock.
E: No.
D: But, there’s some sort of – Something is happening…
E: Yeah.
D: …that is technologically - You know what I mean? There’s some technical business here…
E: Mm.
D: …that’s causing a door-knock sound.
E: Now, do you think it maybe have been what happened to Whit…Whitley Strieber? I mean, he heard that, those knockings that he thought was knocking. It might have been something similar.
D: It’s possible. It’s possible.
E: Yeah.
D: Although, he went off to, to, this whole thing about three knocks…
E: Oh, you think...
D: …and what three knocks meant.
E: … meaning in it and that. Yeah
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: But. But there’s no reason for it to happen at any time, you know? There’s no…
E: Yeah.
D: …knocking on a door is just not a concept. It’s not, as you know, it’s not. (laughs)
E: Yeah. (laughs)
D: That’s a, a certain politeness that prevents you from being arrested for breaking and entering, you know? I mean – (laughs)
E: (laughs) Mm. Yeah.
D: Uh but, um.
E: It sounds exactly like door knocking because like if you heard it, that on a DVD you know.
It’s. Do you think it sounded like door knocking?
D: Yeah. It did. Yeah.
E: Yeah. It’s weird.
D: Although, that I must say that the DVD was hard to…
E: Right.
D: …hard to, to, to hear. But, still, it’s.
E: Yeah.
D: It was.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Yeah. I don’t know what that is, but,
E: Mm.
D: I mean, it still does sound like there’s – It’s a. It sounds more like a byproduct as opposed to a purposeful event.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Because purposeful event makes no sense, and byproduct does in some way.
E: Yeah.
D: But, I don’t know how. I don’t know, I don’t know how, you know? And I don’t know whether they know it.
E: Right.
D: I’m not sure that they are aware of people hearing this knocking sound.
E: Yeah. That’s true. Yeah.
D: Mm. So. Well, anyway. So, there was all that, and then, and then there was something the next day, too, which you talked about. Well, you, you, your sort of began to remember this, this…
E: Mm.
D: …this smell, this, this fragrance, this odor, whatever it was.
E: Mm. A burning smell.
D: Yeah. A burning smell. And then, there was –
E: It was right above my bed because I was like in front of the computer, and it wasn’t there. And then, I went down to the door, and it wasn’t there. And I came back, and I was trying to track it down and it was right above my bed.
D: Right above your bed.
E: Yeah.
D: And it was just sort of staying there.
E: Yeah.
D: And the door was open.
E: The door was closed when I went down. But it should’ve been open.
D: Yeah.
E: And then, I opened it again.
D: And the. But, the point. The smell was still there above your bed.
E: Mm.
D: Once the…
E: Mm.
D: …air started to get in, it didn’t dissipate.
E: No. It did, it did finally, but not like instant. Not quickly.
D: I see.
E: Yeah.
D: Huh. Well, let’s see what that was, by golly. Now, Emma, just brace yourself since you know what these characters are like. I mean, they – and, you know, if they found out that you’re doing anything…
E: I know.
D: …that’s going to…
E: I know.
D: They’re going to apply, they’re going to be applying the screws even more, and you’re going to have more images, maybe, and God knows what they’re going to, you know they–
E: I felt really scared when I was – I don’t know why, but it was really like wrong, wrong, wrong to tell you about it.
D: Well, yeah. Right. Absolutely. That’s what they’re going to say to you. But, they’ve been. They were threatening to kill or death to your mother…
E: Mm.
D: …four and a half years ago. That’s…
E: Yeah.
D: …that’s what amazes me.
E: Yeah.
D: Huh.
E: Huh.
D: I’m going to have to go back and, and look at some of these violent episodes that have happened to people, but…
E: Yeah.
D: …which I put down as sexual aggression…
E: Right.
D: …in The Threat, and see whether or not any of that was connected with…
E: Right.
D: …talking to me, to tell you the truth.
E: Oh, wow. Yeah. They might’ve known that you were writing – That you write about them.
D: Or it. The key thing was not that they know, know that I was writing this, though they certainly might’ve known that, but the fact that, that the people were remembering it and telling it to me, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: That’s, that’s what gets them.
E: Yeah.
D: Oh, well, it’s. Listen. As Budd Hopkins and I have said for the past twenty years, especially me…
E: Mm.
D: …and it applies to everybody, including people who have had these experiences.
E: Yeah.
D: “Nobody said it was going to be easy.”
E: (laughs) I know, that’s true.
D: So, well, so you’re sitting, you’re sitting at the computer.
E: I was – Yeah.
D: And um it’s around 10:25, you said. Something like that.
E: Mm, no. When I was looking at the material – I prob…started looking probably about just before 8:00.
D: Oh, I see. And that’s when you suddenly felt a strong presence around you?
E: Um, at some point, I did. It was a bit later.
D: Um okay.
E: I sort of was okay in the beginning, and then I started to feel this presence. I feel like I’m being watched, and I still have this impression of like seeing a hybrid somewhere around. But I, I can remember even like wondering whether they were there, but they weren’t. (laughs)
D: Yeah. But, but you had that sense, though. I mean, there was –
E: Mm.
D: So.
E: A feeling I was being watched. It was weird.
D: Yeah. Huh. I, I, that’s. Well, normally, you know, in your situation, you, you sort of go with your, your, go with your gut, so to speak, if you, you know, get that pres…sense of presence.
E: Mm.
D: For most people in the world, when they get a sense that there’s a presence near them…
E: Yeah.
D: ...there isn’t.
E: Right.
D: But, for people who have had abduction experiences, when they get a sense that there’s a presence, there’s a greatly increased chance that there actually is, you know? So –
E: Mm. Do other abductees have that feeling as well?
D: Well, yes and no um.
E: Right.
D: I, I remember one woman knew that there was a presence around her, and then it was going to happen as soon as she went to sleep. So, she stayed up all night long. I think I told you this. And she stayed up literally for eight or nine hours, sitting in bed, waiting for it to come, and it never happened.
E: Right.
D: And she had her eye on the wall, on the clock, you know, the whole time.
E: (laughs) It probably saved her.
D: Well, it, it might have, but I think it was just in her own mind, and, and…
E: Right.
D: …and it was just her anticipation was, was, was really wrong and...
E: Yeah.
D: …people. You know, people think that they can, that if they stare at the back of somebody’s neck long enough, you know, the person will turn around and, and the answer is the person is not going to turn around. There’s been, there’s been a million tests that show that, that nobody knows that somebody’s staring at the back of their neck and all that.
E: Right, I see, yeah.
D: And um, uh. But, but for people who have had abduction experiences, that’s a whole different story.
E: Yeah.
D: …because you’re sensitized to things that, that have legitimacy.
E: Yeah.
D: In other words, you’re, you’re sensitized to something that is external as opposed to something that is just internal.
E: Mm. Yeah, and maybe remembering a presence is actually there, but because you can’t remember it, you think it’s – I don’t know. Yeah.
D: Well, yes, that could, that could be true also, obviously.
E: Yeah.
D: And it is a learning situation.
E: Yeah.
D: But, then again, it has been a lifelong situation, too.
E: Yeah.
D: So.
E: It’s so weird. I was reading, you know, like your two stories that you’ve got on your website of Laura and Becky.
D: Mm hm.
E: Oh, my God. It’s so similar. My friend read them as well, and he said, “Oh, my God.” But, you know, even stuff like, you know, one of them was, found herself stuff in the front yard. And you know, then, “Okay. Now I’ve found myself in the back yard,” and then the other woman said that she used to get lured outside, and it’s like, “Oh, my God.”
D: Right. Yep. Yeah, Laura is a, is a woman who’s now sort of – She’s got an awful disease, a, a, a lupus disease, which is
E: Oh?
D: …awful. And she’s sort of wheelchair-bound now, actually.
E: Oh, really?
D: Yeah.
E: That’s terrible.
D: But um.
E: That’s terrible.
D: Now, it’s, it’s just, it’s sort of – It, it’s human life, is what it is. It’s just, just what happens to people, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: But uh, but it’s been especially hard for her…
E: Yeah.
D: …because of all these other experiences as well. I asked her – I talked to her recently, and asked her if there’s been, you know – how much activity there’s been. And she says, “Well, it’s still going on,” because she’s not totally wheelchair-bound.
E: Yeah.
D: So, they, they’re, it’s still going on.
E: Oh, my God. That’s terrible.
D: So, you’re, you’re at the computer starting around 8 o’clock or so.
E: Yeah.
D: But, at one point, you start feeling um…
E: Yeah.
D: …there, there’s a presence around.
E: Yeah.
D: And you think that might about what time, did you say, or, or did you?
E: Um, I’m not, not sure, but it was a little time after I was – Like, I was reading this stuff that was on the, the pages that Beth had put up.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was just looking at them and thinking about, you know, how they looked and things, and then maybe it was not very long afterwards that I sort of felt this presence. I was almost like feeling nervous about it. Yeah.
D: I see. Okay
E: I almost have this kind of impression of like somebody grabbing me from behind or something.
D: While you were sitting there, or?
E: I was standing in front of the computer screen.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know. I just have this memory of somebody grabbing me from behind.
D: You mean a hard grab, or a light touch, or?
E: Like, they had their arms coming around from behind and grabbing me.
D: Hm. You mean around your waist, or?
E: No. Like, from around the top of my chest.
D: Oh. One person, or?
E: Um. Yeah. I think so. Like, he had his hand on my neck. Like, horrible.
D: Hm. What happens next, then?
E: I think they pushed me on the floor.
D: Mm hm.
E: I’m on the floor.
D: Okay.
E: I think there’s another one there as well. And there was another one on my sofa. There were three.
D: Three of them?
E: Yeah.
D: All males, or - ?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. (pause) So, they kind of push you to the floor.
E: It was that guy that I see all the time.
D: They what?
E: It was that guy that I know.
D: Mm hm.
E: He had that other guy that always comes with him.
D: You mean the other guy who accompanies him all the time?
E: Yeah. And then there was this other guy across the room.
D: Did you know him at all, or?
E: No.
D: Now, he’s the one who’s sitting on the couch, or he’s standing?
E: Yeah. He was by the couch.
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s looking at my stereo.
D: You mean they’re, they’re throwing you on the floor, and he’s looking at your stereo?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh.
E: I was on the floor, and I looked up, and I saw him. He was on the end of the couch, and the stereo is by the end of the couch, and he’s looking at the stereo.
D: I see. So, he’s not paying attention to what’s, to the festivities, so to speak?
E: No. (pause)
D: So, you’re lying on the floor. And what happens next, then?
E: That guy was like pushing me with his foot like. They’re going to move me out of the way and…
D: Mm hm.
E: He was grabbing me by my hair, and he made me stand up again, and he took me over to the bed. I had to get on the bed, and that other guy who was with him was looking at the computer screen.
D: Mm. What do you have on the computer screen?
E: It was the pages that Beth had put up. It was like the events, the, my, the early events that happened…
D: Mm hm.
E: … on the screen. That other guy was like really angry with me. Like, he like grabbed me by my face and was really angry.
D: This is the other guy, not, not your personal-project guy?
E: No, this was the one, the one that I always see.
D: Oh I see the personal.
E: Yeah. The younger one was standing, looking at…
D: Mm hm.
E: …the computer. He was saying that they told, told me not to do it.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) He was just like saying that I was, I’m going, I’m going to die and all that. That I should just listen to them.
D: Well, do they understand, do they understand what it means to put it on the computer? Do they?
E: I don’t know, but that other guy was doing something with the keyboard.
D: Hm.
E: He wasn’t doing a lot, but he did touch the keyboard.
D: Okay.
E: It wasn’t like he was typing, but he was like, he did touch some things.
D: Maybe he was trying to scroll down or something. Who knows?
E: Maybe. And the other guy is getting up. He’s coming over.
D: The guy from the couch, or the?
E: Yeah. He was going over to the computer. They’re both looking at it, and he’s also really angry. He’s looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: That guy that I see all the time was just saying that –
D: I’m, I’m sorry. I didn’t quite hear that.
E: That guy that I see all the time was talking to me while they were looking at the computer.
D: Mm hm.
E: He was telling me about something that was going to happen, but I can’t really remember what it was.
D: Something is going to happen to you, or something is going to happen to your family, or something is going to happen to me, or something is going to other people, or?
E: He was, he was saying that like I was going to die, and that he was going to hurt me, and I should listen and all that. But, it was more, much more than that. It was like real serious, serious.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I was going to be responsible for things.
D: Mm hm.
E: It was like they were going to kill you, and they were going to kill Beth. They must know.
D: They used her name?
E: I, I think they – I must, I don’t know if they used her name or whether they – I was just aware it was her. They must know.
D: Hm.
E: I don’t think they used her name, but it was like I think I just had an awareness.
D: I see, okay.
E: And there was somebody else they were going to hurt as well.
D: Somebody else?
E: I can’t remember.
D: Well, we’re sort of the gang of three.
E: Yeah. They must know. They must know about it.
D: They must’ve found out earlier. They must’ve.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean because we’re doing something that happened, you know, real late, so they…
E: Yeah.
D: …and we’ve been diddling with this for a week or so, or a couple of weeks or whatever it is, and so…
E: Yeah.
D: …they must’ve found out at one time earlier.
E: Yeah.
D: Hold on a quick second. I dropped something here. Okay, got it.
E: They were showing me like images of you.
D: Mm hm. Is it actually me, or?
E: It’s probably not. It’s just awareness, I think.
D: Oh.
E: Just knowledge. I think – I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t think they actually said your name or anything.
D: Mm hm.
E: But it was just knowledge it was you.
D: Okay. What kind of images are they?
E: Of you being hurt. Like, having blood on your head.
D: Mm hm.
E: They’re showing me a woman sitting in front of a computer, so I think they must have taken images or something that were in my own head or something.
D: Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: So that, you mean, this would be the Beth image?
E: I suppose. Probably my conception that there’s a woman, you know?
D: Well, what, what does she look like?
E: Um, um. It’s not really visual. I think it’s just awareness.
D: Okay. But, it was visual with me. I mean, there was blood, head, and all that stuff.
E: Yeah. It was more visual with you.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. And they, they also showed me you floating in water.
D: (laughs) Okay.
E: They always do that.
D: It’s the oddest damn thing.
E: Yeah. It was like he was saying that like someone was going to like hit you on the head with a phone or something, and like your head was bleeding. (laughs)
D: Gosh.
E: I’m sorry. I know it’s just what they’re doing. It’s stupid enough.
D: It’s such an odd thing. It’s – (pause) Well, they have two methods of intimidation. They…
E: Mm.
D: …they um you know, it’s threats against family. Well, three methods threats against you, threats against family, threats against friends…
E: Mm.
D: …and imagery to go with it.
E: Yeah.
D: That’s the one method. Then, the second method is pushing you to the floor and grabbing you, pulling your hair, pressing your face…
E: Mm.
D: …you know what I mean?
E: Yeah.
D: But, what’s interesting is that they’re not actually – You know, like when a husband beats up his wife, they, he bangs her around, and he actually hits her with a fist and all that.
E: Mm hm. It causes injury and that…
D: Yeah but.
E: …and they don’t seem to. No.
D: Yeah. They don’t do that. But, I’ve never seen that, I’ve never seen that happen.
E: No.
D: You know, I don’t know if they know that that’s…
E: Yeah.
D: …that’s sort of human aggression in an industrial society, anyway.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: They have this sense of what they should be doing that’s effective that’ll be effective for them.
E: Yeah.
D: And they just keep doing it over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.
E: Yeah
D: And then, it doesn’t work. And then these, I mean, they just do it again.
E: You’d think they’d change some tactic. (laughs)
D: You’d think. But, if they’ve been, started doing this in 2001…
E: Mm.
D: …they’ve been doing it over, and over, and over, and over again.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s the oddest thing.
E: Yeah.
D: It is odd. I mean, it’s a…
E: I know.
D: …it’s a battle that they’re steadily losing.
E: Yeah, because I sent you an e-mail after I finished looking at it. And I did feel bad (laughs) but I was still able to send and write it.
D: Yeah. And you told me you felt bad in, in the e-mail.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: And um, I guess or, or, or, one of those e-mails. But, but…
E: Yeah.
D: …the point is that, that, that they don’t change tactics.
E: No. They don’t have even, even a human being would know to change.
D: “This isn’t working. We’ve got to try something else,” you know?
E: Yeah.
D: “Figure something else out.” So, it’s really weird.
E: Maybe it’s as much as they can do.
D: It could be. This, this could be the limits. But, you have to understand, you have to figure out also that they don’t have a lot of experience with this.
E: No.
D: The vast majority of people, maybe all of them (laughs)…
E: Yeah.
D: …are compliant all the time…
E: Yeah.
D: …you know? I mean, you’ve got a handful of people who’ve gone forward into the, into the press, and then to, have written books, and this, and that, so you’re dealing maybe with thirty individuals, maybe forty around the world. That’s, that’s not a whole lot of people to have experience with when um you’re dealing with millions.
E: Yeah. That’s true. Yeah.
D: So, even if it’s a hundred people, it’s still, it’s, it’s statistically insignificant.
E: Yeah.
D: And, and if it’s a hundred people, then you, the, the, the people who you’ve been working with…
E: Mm.
D: …the chance of them having somebody else who’s doing this is going to be close to zero.
E: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
D: So, they’re just not going to have any experience in it.
E: No.
D: So, the word is, “This is how you -” and, and that means that the gray aliens, the supervisors, and the, the, you know, the pecking…
E: Mm.
D: …order above them who are telling them what to say and how to do it…
E: Yeah.
D: …they don’t have any experience with it either. But, they’ve figured out, “This is what scares humans.”
E: Yeah.
D: And so, this is what they do over, and over, and over again. As you said, as, as they – Well, they, I, I don’t want to put anything in your mind too but, but they do follow rules.
E: Yeah.
D: So…
E: Yeah.
D: …there’s, there’s not a lot of flexibility here. There’s not a lot of creativity.
E: No. It’s just a poor understanding of people, eh?
D: No. No understanding of people. And therefore, very little room to maneuver because that understanding isn’t there.
E: Yeah.
D: Huh.
E: Yeah.
D: So, you’re seeing all these awful, awful scenes of me dead, and, and your own death, and, and death of somebody else who you know…
E: Mm.
D: …and all that…
E: Mm.
D: …and, and they’re really angry. And you’re, and they’ve got you on the bed now. Is that right?
E: That guy has, yeah.
D: That.
E: The other two are by the computer.
D: That’s right. So it’s, this is your personal-project hybrid. This is…
E: Yeah.
D: …We ought to have a name for him so we can just identify him right off.
E: What do you think?
D: Um. What does he look like to you when you look at him? What, what name should he have?
E: Um. I don’t know. I hate choosing names.
D: Well, so do I but, but it’s just easier to know this one is – You know, instead of saying, “Personal-project hybrid,” which is cumbersome.
E: (laughs) Um, I’ll call him Darus. (laughs) It’s just suits him that…
D: How about, how about.
E: I don’t know.
D: How about a real name, but, but, but, but suggestive of it? How about Derrick?
E: (laughs) I don’t know, okay. He doesn’t seem like a Derrick to me.
D: Well, it’s got a “D” and an “E”. It’s got a, a hard consonant like Dartus, you see what I mean?
E: Mm.
D: It’s got um…
E: (laughs)
D: …I don’t know. Whatever.
E: Yeah.
D: You can, you can pick the name. I don’t want to pick a name for you.
E: I could call him Jarrod. I feel like swearing when I think about it. Oh,
D: Well.
E: Oh God.
D: You can call him anything you want. I mean, you can call him Shithead if you want, that’s…
E: (laughs) I do that so often.
D: That’s as good as any. (laughs)
E: (laughs) Nick’s gone away.
D: Yeah. You mentioned that in your e-mail. But, he might’ve gone on a holiday. Although, it is odd that he only gets that one piece of mail.
E: Um, and, and the only mail he got was like the utility bill.
D: So, he doesn’t have friends that write him. Of course, he might be writing them on e-mail all the time for all you know.
E: He just doesn’t have any contact with people ever at his home, anyway.
D: It is strange.
E: Mm.
D: It is strange even if he’s just a normal guy.
E: Yeah. He’s, he’s weird. I mean and he’s normal. I don’t want to judge him. I mean, people are different.
D: Yeah, right.
E: But, it is weird.
D: But, it is strange. It is strange. Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s a strange situation.
E: Yeah.
D: But, you don’t know what kind of a life he’s got outside of the apartment.
E: Right.
D: You know, maybe he’s a member of some community, maybe he’s a member of some sort of religious sect and his whole life’s in love with it. Who knows. You know?
E: Maybe yeah.
D: So.
E: Yeah.
D: However, the next thing you have to do is you have to hire a, a car and follow him wherever he goes. (laughs)
E: (laughs)
D: Anyway, I’m sorry. I’ve gotten you off the track here. But. So, so they’re all angry, and um, and, and Derrick…
E: (laughs)
D: …is putting these awful images in your mind.
E: Mm.
D: …and um whereas the other two guys are still looking at the computer.
E: Mm. I suppose they can read?
D: Yeah. They can probably read. Yeah.
E: Uh.
D: Well, they know what it is, obviously.
E: Yeah.
D: So, therefore, they have to be able to read because – Unless, unless they’re looking at pictures. Are there illustrations up on the computer, or?
E: Yeah.
D: Because they could be looking at the illustrations.
E: Oh, okay. Yeah.
D: Mm.
E: Because it was about the first time that I saw her sketches. Or, they had just gone on, anyway.
D: Yeah.
E: Well, that’s interesting. That is interesting.
D: Well, they probably can read anyway.
E: Yeah.
D: This. So, what happens next, then?
E: Um. I think they know about Beth because they were saying that they were going to kill her.
D: Oh. She’s the other one?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: It’s like I’m going to be responsible. They were saying that they’re going to hurt her, and they’re going to kill her…
D: Mm hm.
E: …um, and they’re going to kill you.
D: Mm hm.
E: I would be responsible for a lot of people. He’s hurting all these people.
D: Mm hm.
E: I mustn’t do it. He’s really and then saying that it was really, really bad. And nobody must know. I mustn’t tell anybody and all that kind of thing.
D: Mm hm.
E: Then they were going to kill my dad.
D: That’s a new one.
E: Yeah. Yeah. He’s just really angry. He’s, he asked me why I did it, why I’m doing it. Why, why did I, it’s like, “Why?” Why did I do it?
D: Mm hm.
E: I just, I couldn’t really think properly.
D: Do you come up with an answer, or - ?
E: Mm. Nothing coherent. I couldn’t really think. I think I felt something, but I couldn’t really think.
D: Okay.
E: He was saying that I was really bad. Really, really bad. He’s saying he’s going to hurt me and all that kind of thing. He’s just asking me if I want to die, and I’m going to die.
D: Mm hm. Well, like I said, brace yourself for, for this thing. You just sort of know it’s going to happen, you know? I mean, this, this onslaught from them.
E: Yeah. He’s saying they won’t let me do it.
D: Hm. But, they haven’t (laughs) they haven’t been too successful yet.
E: No.
D: You’ve already done…
E: I know.
D: …you know, a, a chunk of it, and –
E: Mm. They can’t stop me now because if I feel bad I just know what it is. I just don’t take any notice anymore.
D: Mm hm.
E: That guy who was by the stereo –
D: The number three guy?
E: Yeah. He went back over there and he was looking at something there. He seemed interested in the stereo for some reason.
D: You think he’s going back to look at it again, huh?
E: Yeah. And that other guy is turning now, he’s looking at me.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he came over, and he was like also saying some things to me.
D: This is number two guy or number three guy?
E: Yeah. It was the, the guy who’s always with the other one.
D: The colleague. The friend.
E: The colleague. Yeah. The apprentice.
D: Right.
E: The one. My one that was like going away he was going to look at the computer.
D: Mm hm. So, what does the guy who come, the apprentice say when he comes over to you?
E: He’s just scary. Like, he’s showing me that they really mean it. Like, they’re not going to let me do it and…
D: Mm hm.
E: …like, they’re going to kill me and stuff. Like, like he knows. Like, he’s really telling me he’s going to do it. It’s just scary.
D: Mm hm.
E: He wasn’t as aggressive as the other one, but he’s kind of more scary.
D: Yeah.
E: (pause) He’s saying that they know where you are, and they’re going to hurt, they’re going to kill you. They know all, all about it. They know, like they know everybody. They know where people are. They’re going to stop – Like, I mustn’t do it. He was saying like my dad again. It’s like they were saying that they know where people overseas and that are as well. Like…
D: Mm hm.
E: …it doesn’t matter how far they, away they are.
D: It’s dubious. Very dubious.
E: Mm. And he was just saying I’m going to hurt a lot of people, things. That guy who was by the stereo went back. He was looking at the computer again with the other guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) He was like taking my – I had like these shoes on. He’s taking my shoes off.
D: Mm hm. This would be Derrick, or number one, or the apprentice?
E: No. The apprentice guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: I’m just really scared. A really scary guy.
D: It sounds pretty –
E: I think they were. Sorry?
D: What’s that?
E: What was that?
D: Oh. That was probably my pen. I, I moved my phone and…
E: Oh, okay.
D: The pen hit it. But, it was scary at the time. It sounds horrible. And then, a few minutes later, you’re thinking to yourself, “What just happened?”
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, in other words, they don’t have the tactic of allowing that fear to lapse over into your normal life or would do some good, so to speak, for them.
E: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Because he can’t process the memory, so it encapsulates it and stops me thinking that.
D: It, it’s, it, it, that’s exactly right.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s the damndest thing.
E: Yeah.
D: So, anyway, he’s taking your shoes off, and you’re obviously frightened. You know, I mean because you’re completely – There’s nothing you can do. You’re, you’re…
E: Mm.
D: …you have no way of fighting back, or you were going to answer him back?
E: No. He’s taking my trousers off.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think those people could read because I could see the material moving on the screen.
D: You mean they’re scrolling?
E: Yeah. I think they were like scrolling because and I could see it wasn’t just like one picture.
D: Mm hm. Oh, you could see the pictures going down.
E: No, I could see the – I wasn’t really kind of fully aware of what was on it, but I could see move, movement on it.
D: Yeah. So, are they using the keyboard, or are they using the mouse?
E: I think – I’m not sure. I saw the one of them using the keyboard in the beginning, but I’m not quite sure…
D: Mm hm.
E: …because after that, it wasn’t so easy to look at what they were doing.
D: Yeah, sure.
E: And that other guy was coming over.
D: Mm hm.
E: That guy who was by the stereo.
D: He’s coming over to you?
E: Yeah.
D: Oh but, he went over to the computer.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm. Now he’s coming over to you?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: It was horrible. He’s also telling me that I’m going to die.
D: He says this, too?
E: Yeah. He’s like making me feel like I was really, really bad.
D: Mm hm.
E: I was going to die. He’s just like – Like, they’re going to stop me.
D: The thing to do…
E: Yeah.
D: …is send us all the stuff that you possibly can as soon as you possibly can and tinker with it later. You can, just as long as we…
E: Yeah.
D: …have the stuff, we can always put it on in oh, in an acceptable form that everybody will like because Beth is really good at it.
E: Yeah.
D: And then, you don’t have to have it there.
E: Yeah.
D: You know, they can’t, you, you, they can’t be in a position, then, of stopping you.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s out of your hands at that point.
E: Yeah.
D: See what I mean?
E: Yeah. I’ll try and do it as fast as possible.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: And just as long as we have it. And then, you can mess with how, how you want it to…
E: Mm.
D: … look and all the rest of that stuff.
E: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That other guy that I see a lot, he’s coming over, and he’s showing me like really frightening things like from the past. Like, it’s kind of hard, hard to remember, but feelings.
D: Well, before he came over. I mean…
E: Yeah.
D: …you’re laying there on the bed with your shoes off and your pants pulled down?
E: Yeah. They were off. I took them off.
D: Oh they’re off.
E: That guy took them off.
D: Okay. So, none of them have done any sexual stuff yet, or am I wrong?
E: I don’t know. I don’t know.
D: Okay. Now, Emma, um were you wearing underpants?
E: Yeah.
D: Um. Did you wash the underpants?
E: Um. I probably, probably have.
D: Even though it was yesterday?
E: I might not of. I’ll go and look in the laundry. But, I don’t know which ones. I can have a look.
D: Have a look. Put it in a plastic bag if you find the ones. If there’s, is there going to be intercourse involved here? Are they going to take advantage of you, so to speak?
E: I don’t know.
D: Okay. Well let’s find out if there is first, and – So, he starts to show you frightening things from the past.
E: Yeah.
D: Such as - ?
E: He was fright… he was making me feel very, very scared, and I could remember having those feelings before.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, I don’t remember when, or how, or what it was. I just remember the feeling.
D: Hm.
E: I hadn’t. It was just like he was just making me feel really, really scared. But it was not verbally. It was just a feeling, awful. It was like – Yeah. And he wasn’t even like looking really close. He was looking at me from the end of the bed.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like it…I kind of could, kind of remember something, but it might’ve been something he told me before or something.
D: I see.
E: He was just saying that they’re not going to let it happen. That it’s like too far, too much or something.
D: It’s like too far for what, did you say?
E: It’s like it’s too much, or it’s like it’s too – Like, it’s over the limit. Like, too. It’s unacceptable. That other guy is like taking my top off. (pause) I think, I think they just do some kind of sexual thing as well.
D: Which one?
E: I think it was that guy by the – The guy who was by the stereo.
D: The number three guy?
E: Yeah.
D: Do you get a chance to look at his body at all?
E: Um.
D: In other words, does he have any…
E: A little bit, yeah.
D: …does he…
E: Yeah.
D: …have any bodily hair on him?
E: Mm. Not really.
D: Any pubic hair, did you notice, or?
E: I don’t really notice.
D: Is he…
E: I mainly remember his face.
D: Mm hm.
E: But, I don’t really notice.
D: Anything unusual about his face, or?
E: Yeah. His eyes were quite unusual. He had blue eyes, but they’re quite big. So, um, the iris part of them is quite big.
D: Hm. Would he be able to pass if he were to walk around, or?
E: Um. Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um, they all would.
D: Yeah.
E: He had different clothes. The other ones had like these beige clothes on, but he had like dark trousers and like a blue top.
D: Hm. But, the others had beige clothes on.
E: Yeah. They had like trousers and tops, but they were like beige.
D: Yeah. You’ve mentioned that before, I think.
E: Yeah. It’s like a lot of them seem to wear them.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) I think the one that I know a lot is back by the computer, looking at it.
D: You mean Derrick?
E: Yeah. Derrick.
D: So, he’s staring at the computer now.
E: Yeah.
D: He’s probably getting himself angry again.
E: Mm.
D: You know what’s, what’s interesting is that they don’t seem to know how much this is already out in the public.
E: Yeah, the phenomenon.
D: Right.
E: Yeah.
D: And there’s – I mean it’s we’ve, we’ve, and there’s been books written about this subject now for, for…
E: Yeah.
D: …for forty years.
E: Yeah. I don’t know. That’s interesting, eh? They just maybe see the world through abductees’ eyes mainly.
D: Yeah. That’s probably true. Yeah.
E: Yeah. Um.
D: They also seem to think – They, they have this tremendously exaggerated sense of the impact that something like this will have on people.
E: Mm. Like, most people will, will just go “Oh what a lot of rubbish”.
D: Yeah. Exactly. That’s unfortunately true.
E: Yeah. (inaudible) Maybe they. They just don’t want anyone to think about it.
D: Yeah. I mean you have to remember that the Barney and Betty Hill story is known to everybody in the country - in the United States, anyway. It’s just one of those well-known events in the world in terms of this phenomenon.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, there was, there was a book written about it. It was, that was a best-selling book. There was a, a movie made about it. I mean…
E: Yeah.
D: …it, it, it’s – You know, it’s everything. Now, what I’m going to do here is I’m going to keep talking – Well, no. I can’t do that. I’ve got to – Two things are happening at once. My, I’ll wait till the tapes run out. Actually, what I’ll do is I’ll change the tapes now. No, I won’t. I’ll wait for a second. I’ll see which one’s out first, and then I’ll change the tapes because my, I think my recorder is about to run out, also. But, my little digital recorder.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. So, so you think that, so he, he, the guy, he’s over there now at the computer.
E: Mm.
D: Our friend Derrick.
E: Mm.
D: And he, what, what’s happening with the other two guys?
E: That other guy was just sitting on the couch. The second guy. And the other third guy was basically on my bed.
D: On top of you, in other words.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, if you can dig up the underpants, without even thinking about it.
E: Mm.
D: Just put them in a plastic bag, put them in an envelope, and then just send them off to me.
E: Okay.
D: That would be greatly appreciated. Do not even think about it.
E: Right.
D: Just do it automatically.
E: Yeah.
D: No fuss, no muss.
E: Yeah.
D: And don’t think about it afterwards, either.
E: Yeah.
D: So, what happens next, then?
E: That guy I know came over.
D: Mm hm.
E: And he was telling me to get out. Like, I had to put my clothes on.
D: This is the number two guy?
E: No. The Derrick guy.
D: Oh.
E: And he was like– Yeah. I had to get my clothes on.
D: Okay. So, you pull up your underpants and your trousers, and put your shoes back on?
E: Mm hm. Everything. Everything on.
D: Okay
E: And he’s grabbing me by my hair. He’s taking me over by the computer. He’s just saying like, “I’m not going to let it happen.”
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s really mad. They went out the door, front door. Went down the passage.
D: Okay. Whoops. Hang on a second here now I just want to change this tape. Okay. There’s one, and here’s the other. Okay. Sorry about that. So, he’s got you by the hair, and he’s forcing you to look at the computer and saying he’s not going to let this happen.
E: Mm. They went out.
D: Mm hm. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Then. Yeah. You got dressed, and you all, you all went out.
E: Just they went out. I was just by the computer, but they went down the passage to the door.
D: Oh, they didn’t take you. I thought they were taking you.
E: No. They just left me there, and then they went out.
D: Oh. They had you get dressed so that you wouldn’t know that they were there.
E: Yeah. Probably.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm.
E: I could sort of – I couldn’t remember, but I could, I felt really bad. I could feel that like presence. Like I saw him, I have images in my head of seeing them, but I wouldn’t, couldn’t really remember.
D: Yeah.
E: There was this burning smell in the room.
D: Huh. Now, had they – When you were lying on the bed there…
E: Mm.
D: …had they, did they light anything? Did you get, see any?
E: I don’t know. But, when I think about the burning smell, I keep thinking about that guy that I always see looking at me from the end of the bed. And he was making me feel really, really scared.
D: Yeah.
E: And, for some reason, I associate it with that. But, I don’t know why. It was almost like I saw a light or something.
D: Mm hm, yeah.
E: I thought I could see like light in his eyes or something, but I maybe saw a light. But, I was like really, really scared.
D: Uh huh.
E: I don’t know.
D: But, it’s not like he’s lit something on fire and said something to the point of, “This is what’s going to happen to you,” or something like that. You know what I mean?
E: Mm. No. I don’t remember that, but I remember like his eyes were like – It was like light in them, or I saw some light somewhere.
D: Maybe there’s some sort of electrical discharge in the room.
E: Yeah.
D: That had to do with just their being there in some way. Although, I’ve never heard of that before, but.
E: Mm.
D: Did you see any smoke or anything? Was there any?
E: No. It makes me wonder whether I might’ve seen some light above me because normally, when he makes, when he makes me feel really scared, he’s got his face right up against mine.
D: Right yeah.
E: But, he wasn’t. He was standing at the end of the bed, looking at me from a distance, and it did feel different. And I could see this like light in his eyes, but I wonder whether there might’ve been a like light above me. Like, a ball of light.
D: You mean reflecting off his eyes?
E: Yeah. I think it might’ve been like a ball of light above me, and I could see it…
D: Huh.
E: …something in his eyes. Yeah. Something that was – I don’t know. I don’t know. But, it made me feel really scared.
D: Yeah. And then, they left you with that residual smell because you had no idea what it was.
E: Mm. But, I know that when I was smelling where it was, it was above the bed.
D: Yeah. Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: Right where, where, where that ball of light might’ve been.
E: Yeah. It was kind, it was kind of there.
D: Huh.
E: And I can remember when I was smelling it, I was looking – It was above the bed. It was kind of.
D: I don’t know what that is.
E: Hm.
D: I mean I know, we’ve, balls of light that have been in the room are something that’s extremely common…
E: Yeah.
D: …with abductions and with UFO events. In fact…
E: Yeah.
D: …in our que… in the questionnaire that I have, you know…
E: Yeah.
D: …I ask people if they’ve ever seen unusual lights or balls of light that they don’t know the origin of in their room.
E: Hm.
D: Well, did, and did it just dissipate, or did…
E: I’m not sure.
D: …it pop, or did it?
E: I’m not sure.
D: Hm.
E: I think, I think it just went out.
D: I see, okay.
E: Because I can mainly, I mainly remember looking at a light.
D: But, the interesting thing is that it had a different feeling…
E: Yeah.
D: …related to distance.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Hm. So, for maximum effect, they’ve got to get real close to you. And then, what you get is a minimizing effect the further away they are…
E: Yeah.
D: …I would imagine.
E: Yeah. Because when they’re up really close, it is. It’s really strong. I was a little scared.
D: But, it does show you, also, the limits of their abilities. I mean, their abilities are infinitely more than our abilities, of course…
E: Yeah.
D: …but there are limits.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm, I don’t know what that light was or why it was in there.
E: Maybe that’s why he was keeping back. Maybe it would do some damage or something.
D: Well, is there, is there any damage that was done in the room? Was there any…
E: No.
D: …any mark on the ceiling, or the wall, or anything, or?
E: No. Nothing. Just that smell.
D: Mm hm.
E: And the smell kind of stayed in that place. It didn’t move around or anything. It didn’t float through the flat.
D: Right. Yeah. So odd. Now, you didn’t wake up with singed hair or anything like that, or - ?
E: No. No.
D: Huh. Okay. Now, this was all on the 17th. But then…
E: Hm.
D: …right after that, then – Well, that’s when you got up, then, I guess, and you –
E: I just kind of was looking for the smell. I’m wondering what caused it, and I was feeling nervous and that. And then, I just felt, “Ah,” you know? A just nervous feel, you know? And then, I just sent you an e-mail.
D: Yeah.
E: My ideas about what I was thinking about…
D: Right
E: …and that was it.
D: But, you said you, you woke up at 7:00. Oh, that was, that was the night, that was earlier. Your trou…trousers were down around your ankles, and you probably felt like you had sex. That was the day before.
E: The next day, I went to sleep in the afternoon.
D: Well, this was the day where – “Where is that smell? Where is that smell?”
E: It was on the 17th. It was at night.
D: Actually, I’m just missing a page here. Here it is. Yeah.
E: And that, I was smelling the smell not long before I logged off because I remember because I had been wondering if it was the computer, and I was thinking, “Oh. Well, I’m almost finished on it, so -” But, it wasn’t the computer anyway.
D: Right. Yeah. And you said, “I think something might have happened this evening.” Now, this is afterwards, is it not? “I sent you some e-mails this afternoon about the events last night, and after I sent you – It was around 4:00. I had to go on, to go and lie on my bed.”
E: It was the next afternoon the next day.
D: Okay. Now, that was the next day. Now, I assume you’re wearing different under, underwear and all that?
E: Yeah.
D: Knickers as…
E: Yeah.
D: …as you say. Okay.
E: Hm.
D: Okay. You woke up twenty minutes ago at 8:00. You went to sleep in the afternoon at 4 o’clock, and then, you woke up at 8 o’clock.
E: Mm.
D: After four hours sleep, and you felt exhausted and um.
E: The computer monitor light was on when I woke up.
D: You had a red welt on your cheekbone.
E: On each, on each cheekbone. It was weird. Like, one on each.
D: The usual pain. And, and then, that’s when you went to look at the, the dial-up usage.
E: Mm No. I looked at the dial-up usage a bit later, I think.
D: Oh I see, okay.
E: Or, maybe I did. I don’t know.
D: And.
E: I thought it was beforehand that I looked at the dial-up usage.
D: Oh I see.
E: I’m not sure.
D: Yeah. Because you, you wrote me one February 18th, and then you said – You know, you talked about the…
E: Yeah.
D: …8 o’clock. And then, you wrote me one later.
E: Yeah. I think I had been looking at the dial-up usage before, probably.
D: Oh okay.
E: And then, I had to go and lie down. And then, I was asleep for four hours.
D: Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Before 4 o’clock.
E: Yeah.
D: Then, you said, “I sent you an e-mail last night after I had been looking at the material, and I sent it about 9:50. So, I probably stopped looking at the website material not long before then.”
E: Mm.
D: So, this was – Now, this little bit is what you’re talking about in terms of what we just did.
E: Yeah.
D: “So it was possible I was looking at the material for about an hour, one and a half hours, or three quarters of an hour. I’m not sure.”
E: Mm.
Session #20C
D: So, the next day, then, you’re working at the computer –
E: I just sort of felt really like I had to go and lie down on my bed.
D: Mm hm.
E: And um. I’ve been sending you those e-mails about what happened. You know, what we just looked at, and I felt really it was really wrong to tell you about it. Really scared.
D: Right. Yeah. I’m sure.
E: I was going to go lie down.
D: So, at 4 o’clock, you, you sort of get tired.
E: Mm, I think it was more like that heavy feeling.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I just had to go and lie on my bed. Yeah. Hm.
D: Do you – I don’t know. Are we coming up to a point where you have to give me a call back? One of these –
E: Um. I think I have to call you back in about three quarters of an hour.
D: Oh, okay. I lost track a little bit.
E: Actually, would it be okay if I took a little break now?
D: Absolutely.
E: Yeah? Okay. Can I ring you in about five minutes?
D: Uh, make it six because I’ve got to go to the bathroom.
E: Okay.
D: Bye, bye.
BEGINNING SECOND FILE
D: Okay. So um, you were working at the computer, I guess or…
E: Um.
D: …sort of whatever you were doing there. I can’t remember where we were.
E: It was on the, it was the 18th of –
D: Yeah. Before you went, before got that heavy feeling.
E: Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I just – Yeah. I logged off the computer, and then I went and laid in my bed.
D: So, the computer was off?
E: Yeah.
D: And um. Okay. You had been working on sort of how things are going to – Well, this was just yesterday, I guess, until you’re – Or, maybe it was just tomorrow. I’m never sure.
E: Just keep saying it.
D: (laughs) Yeah.
E: (laughs)
D: (laughs) Um.
E: That was today for you I mean thankful that.
D: Right. Um. So uh. You uh, were working on the placement of things, or that sort of stuff, or?
E: No. I was just sending you e-mails about what I could remember about –
D: Oh. So, you weren’t actually working on the website, then?
E: No.
D: On the material? Okay.
E: No.
D: Mm hm.
E: I just kept remembering about the burning smell, and this, that, and the other. “Oh, yeah.”
D: Yeah.
E: It was, “Oh, yeah.”
D: Well, I do think that the best thing is just to, to send all the stuff that you possibly can. And you can still work on it, but at least we’ll have copies of it. So, if they decide that they want to take an axe to your computer…
E: Yeah. I know.
D: …then all the stuff will already have been sent. See what I mean?
E: Yeah. Yeah. I know. I mean – Yeah.
D: Yeah. You might even want to think about just doing that tonight. (laughs)
E: (laughs) It’s not typed in.
D: Oh, it’s not typed in? Oh, oh okay. But, but you’ve sent the materials to me. Most of it, anyway, have you not?
E: I’ve sent you a lot, but I haven’t sent you all – Like, I have that whole 2004 thing I did. I haven’t sent you any of that.
D: Oh okay. Yeah.
E: I sent you most of 2005, and I’ve sent you a huge kind of – that lot, that big lot of stuff that I sent you has got a lot of experiences in it, but they’re not, they’re done by feature rather than chronology.
D: Yeah.
E: They’re not so useful.
D: Yeah. Hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, send me whatever is sort of ready to go but not keyed into the, into…
E: Yeah.
D: …the computer yet.
E: Okay.
D: And you can do that as soon as possible. You might want to just…
E: Yeah.
D: …include a, a plastic bag with an item in it.
E: Yeah.
D: The item shall remain nameless.
E: Yeah.
D: Or maybe even a couple of items depending on whatever is going to happen, and has happened, and all the rest of that stuff.
E: Yeah.
D: Um, I would, I would consider that to be a uh, uh something important and something that would help…
E: Yeah.
D: …help me considerably and…
E: Yeah.
D: ...and um the less you know about it, the better.
E: Okay. Yeah.
D: So, you get this heavy feeling. You log off the computer.
E: Mm hm.
D: And. Now, when you say log off the computer, does that mean that the computer is still on? Or does…
E: No.
D: …that mean - ?
E: I turn it off.
D: You turned it off.
E: I turned my monitor off and…
D: Right.
E: …everything.
D: Mm hm. Okay. And you, you, you go to sleep. I mean, at least, you get into bed.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. Emma, are you ready to do this?
E: Um kind of. Yeah. I’m sort of feeling “[shivering],” but yeah. (laughs)
D: (laughs) I’m thinking to myself, “Oh, God. Do I real…Do we want to do this again?” because you know what’s going to happen. They’re going to come back, and they’re going to be pissed, you know?
E: Mm. That actually helps that you say that, you know? (laughs) Because it does – Yeah.
D: (laughs) Well, you just know that these guys they – It’s, it’s like they have time on their hands. There’s, they, they, they don’t, there’s.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s like they’ve got too much idle time or something. It’s like they can focus in on one thing. They don’t have day jobs. It’s all.
E: No.
D: It’s like.
E: I know.
D: They spend all their time doing this sort of stuff, it seems.
E: Yeah.
D: So, anyway. Okay. So, you lay down. Now, when you’re, when you’re on the bed um, do you actually go to sleep, or do you - ?
E: I was asleep for part of the time.
D: Oh. So, you do drift off a little bit?
E: Yeah. I think so.
D: Mm hm. Okay. That means that I take out my little – Oh. I forgot to send you this chart. Gosh. I keep forgetting. I then circle day, bed, sleep.
E: Oh. Is that on your chart?
D: Mm hm. My little, my little form that I have here.
E: Right.
D: Now, if you were just lying there and you, you hadn’t gone to sleep, I’d just circle day, bed.
E: Oh.
D: And if you were at your computer, I’d just circle day.
E: Right. Okay. Cool. That’s absolutely amazing what you’ve done. I know I keep saying it, but every now and then, it hits me. I really. It’s just mind boggling.
D: Well, it’s not. It’s, it’s just. It’s, it’s, well when you see it, you’ll know that the form is kind of screwed up. It’s not quite in chronological order. It’s not quite in – in the order is, is off. And I have, and I keep thinking to myself, “I’ve got to change the order. I’ve got to change the order.” But…
E: Mm.
D: …you’ll see when I, when I.
E: Yeah.
D: If I can remember, I will do it tonight.
E: Okay. (laughs)
D: (laughs) And after this session, if you just want to talk with me for a few more minutes, you’ll force me to go over to the computer and do it while I’m talking to you.
E: (laughs) Okay.
D: (laughs) So um. Anyway. So, you actually do sort of drift off to, to sleep.
E: Mm.
D: Now, are you lying on top of the bed, are you under the covers, or?
E: Mm. I got under the covers.
D: Are you? You’re wearing your regular trousers, or you still have pajamas on, or?
E: I have my trousers and a tee-shirt.
D: Okay. So. I mean in, earlier in the day, did you, did you get outside the house? I mean, did you go anywhere, or - ?
E: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I was all up, and yeah my friend had come over um in the morning. And – Yeah. That’s all.
D: Okay. Now, this is a male friend of yours, or a female friend of yours, or?
E: Yeah. It was just my male friend. He, he knows about – He’s my only friend that I’m actually going to tell about the website “[shivering].”
D: (laughs) Oh. This is not the guy who visits you from time to time and used to live in your, in the flats?
E: No. No. No. Oh no. God, no.
D: Well, is he, is he supportive? Is he?
E: Yeah. Yeah. He’s kind of dumbfounded, but.
D: Well.
E: Yeah.
D: As well he should be, obviously.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: I mean, there would be something wrong with him if he wasn’t, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: Um. I always say that people who just accept this stuff upon first hearing it, there’s something wrong with them. You know there’s…
E: Yeah.
D: …they have no business accepting this upon first hearing it.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, but um. So, so he’s around for a while.
E: Mm.
D: And um. Now, I’m going to – Okay. He’s, he’s around for a while, and then he leaves about what time, do you think?
E: Um. I think he left sort of – I don’t know – maybe afternoon, 2:30, or something like that. Like, he’s doing some study, and I’m helping him with his assignment. Um.
D: He’s, he’s in a university or a school of some sort?
E: Yeah. He’s doing a university course.
D: Mm hm. Okay. So, how old a guy is he?
E: He’s forty four.
D: Oh okay.
E: Yeah.
D: So.
E: He’s just a friend. He’s not like a boyfriend or anything like that.
D: Yeah.
E: It’s just platonic. But, a good…
D: But he’s.
E: ...just kind of nice friend.
D: But, he’s a guy who – He went back to school after a long layoff. Is that?
E: Yeah. Like, he’s doing business. He’s doing, he’s doing like business study…
D: Mm hm.
E: ...courses. Like. Yeah.
D: So, you’re helping him?
E: Yeah. With the assignments and stuff.
D: With finance and stuff, did you say?
E: He’s with. Just with his assignments.
D: Oh. With his assignments. I’m sorry. I can’t hear…
E: Yeah.
D: … worth a damn, you know. But um.
E: (laughs)
D: So. Well, that’s nice of you to do.
E: Mm. But. Yeah. But, he’s nice, so I’m happy to help so.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: So, uh he leaves around 2:30 or so.
E: Yeah.
D: And, and that’s when you go over to the computer and start doing the e-mails and everything and.
E: Yeah.
D: And then, you say, “No. No. No,” logging off.
E: Yeah.
D: Shut everything down.
E: Yeah.
D: Turn off the monitor.
E: Yeah.
D: Say, “God. I just got to get to sl…I just got to lay down.”
E: Mm. I started to have that feeling when my friend was here. And I was like, “Oh, my God. I don’t want you to leave,” you know? “Something is going to happen.”
D: Oh, no. (laughs) So. Anyway. So, you finally kind of?
E: Yeah.
D: Instead of saying, “I think I’ll go for a walk”.
E: Yeah.
D: Oh wait, you know, um I understand a hundred percent that that thought it never going to cross anybody’s mind in this situation.
E: Yeah.
D: It never has.
E: Oh God. Yeah. That’s true. That’s true.
D: But. So…
E: Yeah.
D: …you get under the covers.
E: Mm.
D: And um you actually do sort of drift off to sleep.
E: Mm.
D: So, you’re sort of sleeping away there, and away in a sense and. Does anything disturb your sleep, or?
E: Mm. Yeah. I got woken up.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um. That guy I know was there again with the other guy.
D: With the, the apprentice?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. The, the third guy wasn’t there?
E: No.
D: Hm. Incidentally, I forgot to ask you, or maybe I – Maybe I did ask you. I don’t know. How, how old was the third guy?
E: Well, I would say he was probably in his thirties.
D: Oh. In his thirties. Okay. Yeah, maybe I did ask you that. So, um. So they wake you up. Now.
E: Yeah.
D: Do they wake you up roughly or…
E: Yeah.
D: …gently?
E: It wasn’t good waking up.
D: Mm hm. Had you been asleep for a long time, or a short time, or?
E: I don’t think I was asleep for very long.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Does he say anything to you?
E: Mm. He’s pulling the covers off.
D: Okay.
E: (pause) I had to sit up. He’s grabbing me by my arm.
D: Mm hm.
E: He pulled me out, out of the bed. I was lying on the floor.
D: Once again, does, does he say anything?
E: No. He’s just like pulling my hair and that.
D: He. I’m sorry. He what?
E: He had me by my hair. He’s taking me across the room. Like, I was at this shelf, and I’ve got photos of people on it…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and he’s like making me look at them.
D: They’ve done this before?
E: Yeah. (pause) He was saying that I was going to hurt all of them.
D: Mm hm.
E: And that other guy was switching on the computer monitor.
D: He was turning it on?
E: Yeah.
D: Mm.
E: Mm. That guy that I know is the same – Because I turned around, and I saw him because I heard him doing it. And I turned around, and the other guy was like making me look back at the pictures.
D: You mean they, they brought up the file?
E: I’m not quite sure, but I just heard him turning the monitor, the switch.
D: Mm hm.
E: So, I don’t know. But then, the other guy turned my head back. Like, I had to look back at the photos, and my back was –
D: Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. He’s making you look at the photos that’s uh. When you said, “The pictures,” I thought you meant the, the illustrations.
E: Oh, no. The photos. Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: That other guy was behind me by the computer. I’m not sure what he was doing.
D: Mm hm.
E: Then he switched the monitor on because I heard it.
D: Right.
E: I was turning around.
D: He switched the monitor on, but I wonder if he switched the computer itself on.
E: Mm. I don’t know.
D: Huh.
E: I didn’t hear the computer go on. I just heard the monitor go on.
D: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
E: Yeah.
D: So, he forced you to look at all these photos.
E: Yeah. They were just kind of looking. Like, I turned around, and he was looking at me, sort of saying, you know, like, “Do you want them all to die?” and stuff like that. (laughs) I was like, “[sigh].” He was saying I was going to hurt them all and. Oh God.
D: Mm hm.
E: That, the guy was by the computer.
D: Mm hm.
E: He had his hand out on a, on it, touching it.
D: Touching in the right place? Like, in the turn on button?
E: Um. Actually, it was. I see his hand was going where the turn on button is.
D: Hm.
E: I didn’t really hear it go on, though. (pause) That guy was saying that he was going to like throw me out of the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: But I was just looking at the guy by the computer. My memory is a bit disjointed around that. I’m not quite sure.
D: Well, do you see an image come up on the monitor? I mean, has he actually.
E: Um.
D: I mean, is…
E: No.
D: …Windows coming up?
E: No. I didn’t see that.
D: When Windows comes up, does it make a chiming sound, or a crescendo, or something like that, or?
E: No. But, you can hear the computer go.
D: Hm mm. But, it doesn’t –Windows. You don’t have it so it announces itself, so to speak.
E: No.
D: Okay. (pause) Mm. You ought to have a web camera. (laughs)
E: (laughs) Oh my God.
D: They’d turn it on, and suddenly they’re on, they’re on the internet.
E: (laughs) That’s not a bad idea. What a good idea.
D: That’s actually not a bad idea. That is actually not a bad idea.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, of course, you wouldn’t be on the internet, you’d be on, because yours is dial-up. Damn.
E: Oh. Yeah.
D: See, when, when, when my inter…I have cable, so when my computer goes on, it’s automatically on.
E: Right.
D: You know, it’s automatically there.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm. I wonder if you can program. Oh no, you can’t because you’re on the phone right now.
E: Yeah.
D: I wonder if you can program it so that it would dial up automatically upon turning on.
E: Mm.
D: In other words, you could turn it all off…
E: Mm.
D: …and then keep it off if you don’t want to go on. But.
E: Yeah.
D: But, but it, but that the fault would be when it turns on, it dials.
E: And then, you can stop it dialing…
D: Yeah.
E: …consciously.
D: Right. Yeah. So, when they turn it on, and then there’s a – They would be – If there’s a web camera, then they would be automatically.
E: Web camera.
D: Yeah. See, I could have Beth – I, I, I don’t know how to – I, I don’t know nothing about this stuff.
E: (laughs)
D: But, I do know that people use web cameras all the time, and they’re…
E: Yeah.
D: …on the web.
E: Yeah.
D: That would be interesting. It would play into their weakness, too.
E: Yeah. I could have it directed onto your computer or something. (laughs) But it. You might suddenly see, “Oh?”
D: Right. Well, it could be anywhere, but directed towards the computer. You just see somebody turning it on.
E: Yeah.
D: So, um, anyway so, he’s, he’s still messing with it and, and, meanwhile um, your memory is a little bit disjointed about…
E: Mm.
D: …seeing him there.
E: Mm. (pause) I can remember that other guy pushing me back towards the window and saying he was going to push me out the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um yeah.
D: Yeah. I shouldn’t tell you this, but I will, but. Uh they uh put Beth over towards – Oh she’s got sort of a balcony, I guess, or a rail from the uh …
E: My God.
D: …um, her stair casing. Forced her halfway over, and told her they were going to throw her over the rail.
E: Oh, my God.
D: She continued to do this. This was last week.
E: Oh, my God.
D: Her, actually, this was not last week. This was, was this, this was Wednesday or something like that.
E: Oh, my God. That’s the same.
D: I’m telling you, your, your experiences and her experiences are so similar, it is just beyond imagination.
E: That is incredible. They must, they really do have a um, a plan.
D: Exactly right. It’s like a script.
E: Far out. Wow.
D: Now, she has a family and kids, so they can do more things with that.
E: Yeah.
D: They can put really awful images in her mind.
E: Yeah.
D: Really awful.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: So, anyway, he takes you over towards the window, threatens to throw you out.
E: Yeah. He was pushing me over like so my back was to the window, and he was like going to throw me out of the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: And then, I just thought that he was going to. But, then he was like pulling me by my hair, and he threw me on the ground. On the carpet. (pause)
D: Mm hm. Is he saying anything at this time, or?
E: Mm. Not really.
D: Okay.
E: He’s just like dragging me around the floor. (pause) He like, he was like, he was taking me over to the bed and like throwing me on the, on my bed and that. And that guy was still by the computer because I could see him.
D: Mm hm.
E: He was like, like pressing on my face, and he was –
D: With his hands, or with his?
E: Yeah. His hand. He was like saying like he was going to smash my face in and stuff.
D: So, he says he’s going to scratch your face?
E: That he’s going to like smash my face in.
D: Oh. He’s going to smash your faces in.
E: He was like really pressing on my cheekbones with his fingers and that. I don’t think that guy had the computer on because I, I don’t think he had anything on the thing.
D: Oh. So you, but, he did get it on.
E: He had the monitor on.
D: Oh.
E: I don’t know whether he had it logged on anything.
D: Oh, I see. So, he didn’t, actually.
E: No. I don’t think so. But I think he was like looking around the whole set up.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) He was just saying all the same sorts of things again. Like, you’re going to die, and my family are going to die, and kind of images, images, impressions of like (laughs) Beth is going to die and all that kind of stuff.
D: (laughs) Did you get an image of Beth this time?
E: Um. No. But, it’s more like awareness.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s probably because I haven’t seen her.
D: Right.
E: So, there’s nothing – I don’t know, but it’s like an awareness.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. I mean, they must know what she looks like, but if they give me an image of like that I wouldn’t recognize.
D: They do not know what she looks like.
E: Okay.
D: That’s, that’s, that’s just a, that’s, that’s a, that’s a long shot. Let’s put it that way. I mean, there are millions of abductees.
E: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You’re right. Even in (censored). Oh, God. (laughs)
D: (laughs)
E: Yeah, it’s just the same kind of stuff. They’re showing me like images of like lions and that. I think they’ve done that in the past because I’ve often had dreams, really, really terrifying dreams of like lions coming in my flat or something. (laughs)
D: Hm. Okay. Lions? Alright.
E: Yeah. I don’t know why.
D: What, what are the lions doing, if anything?
E: I’m not sure. I just remember the image of it. I think, when I was a kid, I had, I was scared of lions in South Africa and maybe it’s just an old fear…
D: Yeah. It could be.
E: …that they played on.
D: Well, you have to remember that um, that they’ve known you since you were a child, so…
E: Yeah.
D: …they certainly could’ve known of those fears when you were a kid.
E: Yeah. Yeah. (pause) They’re showing me an image of you.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t, I don’t know if this is real, but it, they just like showed an image of you writing something with a pen. But, I don’t know whether that’s me.
D: Mm. Okay. What am I writing on? (pause)
E: Like, like (laughs), like an A4 sized paper.
D: Like, like a what?
E: Like, A4 sized paper.
D: Full-sized paper? Okay.
E: Do you, do you have A4 sized paper in America?
D: A-full? What is?
E: A4. A4.
D: What does that mean?
E: It’s like printer paper sized paper. It’s like the sizing of the, of a page.
D: Is that the page, is that the size that you send me?
E: Yeah.
D: No.
E: Oh.
D: We do not have that size in America.
E: Okay. Because that’s what they were showing me.
D: I see. Our size is eight and a half by eleven inches. No, and your, your, um, the stuff that you send me just barely fits in my file cabinet…
E: Oh.
D: …because file cabinets are not made. That’s a, that’s a. What we have is legal-sized, which is longer than what you send, and then regular sized, which is shorter than what you send.
E: Oh. Okay.
D: Interesting, huh? (laughs)
E: Yeah. (laughs) They must’ve pulled – A lot of the images must be coming out of my own head, and…
D: Yeah.
E: …the paper is…
D: Right.
E: …that’s what paper is.
D: Right.
E: Yeah.
D: Exactly. But, that is not, that is not a paper that you can buy in the United States.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: It’s very interesting.
E: Yeah.
D: A4, huh? I’ve never heard that before.
E: Yeah. It’s sort of the standard, you know? You get A4 pads of paper, A4 prints of paper, A4 plastic files (laughs) and all that.
D: This is the first I’ve ever heard of that. Never heard that.
E: No.
D: Although, I do know that, that everything you’ve sent me is on this paper that’s sort of odd-sized.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: (laughs)
E: I don’t know. I guess. Maybe it’s a (censored) thing. I don’t know.
D: Could be. I don’t know. (laughs) Let me see. I’m looking in here. I’m looking in your book here. I don’t think I have anything from what you sent me. No. Not in this file. I must’ve put it all back. So, I’m writing something and, and uh.
E: Yeah.
D: I have to ask, but what happens to me then? (laughs) (pause)
E: Like, they were sort of saying that I’m like I’m destroying your life or something. Like, I’m going to just destroy your life.
D: Well, that’s already happened.
E: (laughs) Oh no. Oh my God. Yeah.
D: So, I’m going to destroy my life, or they’re going to destroy my life.
E: I’m going to destroy it.
D: Oh. You’re going to destroy it. Oh. Yeah, right. Okay. (laughs) (pause)
E: It’s like he was showing me this image of you as like an innocent, nice person, and I’m going to destroy your life.
D: (laughs) Yeah. They, they, they just pick on, on anything that they think will work. Any, and as, as, as Budd Hopkins was saying – I, I was talking to him the other night. There’s this sort of naiveté, you know this?
E: Mm.
D: Even though they’re so violent and intimidating and, there’s this kind of innocence, in a sense, behind it. This, this lack of understanding. This childlike quality, in a sense…
E: Mm.
D: …you know? So.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, it’s not exactly like the mafia.
E: No. (laughs)
D: They know how to get things done.
E: (laughs) Yes.
D: (laughs)
E: Yeah. God. Yeah.
D: I mean, it’s not like they – You know, the mafia, you know, they, they bust people up, they do this, you know, they, they, they inflict – They’re serious about it.
E: Mm.
D: They do real damage. They don’t spend five years saying they’re going to do it.
E: No. There would be no record.
D: Right. Exactly. (laughs) Well. Anyways. So, so there’s, you’re. It’s all your fault. It, it’s guilt.
E: Mm.
D: You’re, you’re going to be responsible. You’re going to do it all. Now, they’re playing on your higher sensibilities, basically. You certainly wouldn’t want to do that to your friends and your family.
E: Mm. Yeah. He’s asking me things. He’s asking me what I’m going to do next.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know what really – It was like I wasn’t really talking, but it was more that I was not really fully functioning.
D: Yeah.
E: Um. He’s like looking in my eyes. He wanted to know what I was going to do next.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he’s asking me if I want to go away with them. He was saying that they were going to take me away or something.
D: Okay.
E: He’s saying that I might have to go with them. I kind of didn’t want to go.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he’s kind of like trying to be nice. Like, he’s like holding me and stuff.
D: Mr. Nice Guy.
E: Yeah. (pause) It’s almost like it wasn’t my fault that they were going to like take me away or something.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think, I think he was asking if I want to go with him.
D: Do you answer?
E: Um. no, but I think he kind of knew I didn’t want to go.
D: Hm.
E: He was looking in my eyes as well. I think he kind of knew. (pause) He was saying that like I will, will have to say goodbye or something.
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s treating me like I was going to be taken away or something. I think I said that I didn’t want to go.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he kept on asking me, and then I could kind of talk, and I was saying I don’t want to go.
D: Right, sure.
E: I think he was saying that if I keep doing it then I’ll have to go.
D: Mm hm.
E: I could hear that guy banging something by the computer.
D: Banging something?
E: Yeah. I could hear like a little banging sound. I’m not sure of what he was doing.
D: Maybe he just doesn’t know enough to press the button.
E: Yeah.
D: Did you use your computer since then? I mean, is it okay?
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Oh, okay. Maybe he’s fixing it for you.
E: (laughs) Yeah. God. (pause) I think he said something to the other guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: That other guy was getting kind of annoyed again.
D: You mean Derrick said something to the apprentice?
E: No. He’s telling me. The apprentice said something to him, and then, and then he was getting kind of annoyed. He’s like pressing on my face again.
D: Hm. So, the apprentice says something and…
E: Mm.
D: …and then he gets annoyed again. Okay. (pause)
E: But I think. He’s just like just doing all this threatening again and all this stuff. (inaudible) The other guy went and sat on the sofa. He gave up on the computer.
D: I’m sorry. Say that again.
E: He left the computer, and he went and sat by the, on the sofa.
D: Mm hm. He never got it on, then.
E: I don’t think so.
D: You know, I just don’t know if it’s a good idea if Justin fixes this logging off business.
E: Oh. It might be quite useful. Yeah.
D: Because if they can’t get it on or figure out how to work it and it logs itself off…
E: Yeah.
D: …it might (laughs) be to your advantage.
E: (laughs) Yeah, it might be like a screen saver.
D: Yeah. Exactly.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s like a screen saver, in a sense.
E: Yeah. Mm.
D: I wonder if Justin can fix it so that it will log off after inactivity of, you know, ten minutes or something like that, or –
E: Yeah. I’ll ask him.
D: Because that’s what you want.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: (long pause) So, he starts with his threats and all that. He changes tact suddenly when the guy…
E: Yeah.
D: …who was at the computer now sitting on the couch has spoken to him. And then, suddenly…
E: Yeah.
D: …he gets all angry again. (pause)
E: Mm. Yeah. He’s saying he doesn’t like me listening to what you say.
D: I’m sorry. He, he what?
E: He doesn’t like me listening to what you say.
D: To what I say?
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: He was just saying that he’s going to smash my face in.
D: Okay. As he did before. Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm. I wonder if he – When he was giving you those images, was he kind of looking around at what you were doing recently as well, or?
E: I’m not sure.
D: Well, you’re going to have a respite from me because it’s not going to be another – You know, the next three weeks or so, whatever while…
E: Yeah.
D: …we’re not going to be able to have a session. So…
E: Yeah.
D: …so he’s going to – You’re going to be compliant, so to speak.
E: (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.
D: Unless what they mean by listening is e-mailing.
E: Oh God.
D: I don’t, I don’t know if they know about e-mail.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, they, they do know about it – It depends on the individual hybrid.
E: Right.
D: Beth’s hybrid knows about e-mail…
E: Right.
D: …because she told them.
E: Right. Wow.
D: But um, but I don’t know if yours does. In other words…
E: Mm.
D: …the guy couldn’t turn the computer on…
E: Mm.
D: …and your personal-project hybrid guy didn’t go over there and just turn it on.
E: No. That’s right.
D: Because it only takes a second. And then, he got back to his threats and his carrying on…
E: Yeah.
D: …and um, which meant that he probably didn’t know how to turn it on either so.
E: Yeah.
D: So, therefore, they probably don’t know much about e-mail.
E: Yeah.
D: But, they do know that showing it on the screen is bad. That other people…
E: Yeah.
D: …can see it then, see?
E: Yeah.
D: But, I don’t know if they understand what the internet is.
E: Hm.
D: That they can see it around the world if they want.
E: Yeah. They probably don’t. I don’t know. Yeah. (laughs)
D: Let’s not tell them. (laughs)
E: Oh no, oh God (laughs). Well, it hasn’t sort of fully dawned on me. It’s only just starting to really dawn on me, that other people (laughs) are going to see it. So, maybe they’re following my – It’s pretty lately that it’s – I mean, I’ve obviously known, but it’s –
D: Well, it is, it is sort of – You know, it, it is a little bit of a, of an overwhelming idea until you realize the reality of it, which is…
E: Mm.
D: …not that many people know about this website.
E: (laughs)
D: This is not one of your million-hits-a-day website.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: I’ve got a counter. If you, when you go to my website, you’ll see a counter on it. You can see how many times somebody’s clicked on it…
E: Yes.
D: …in the past six years or whatever it is, and it’s not a heck of a lot. And you’ve got to remember a lot of those clicks are me and Beth.
E: Yeah.
D: So, it’s not a lot.
E: Yeah. Thank God.
D: The reason is because I have almost no links with people.
E: Oh okay.
D: I don’t, I don’t, I, I only have some links uh with um uh some of the major UFO organizations, and that’s all.
E: Yeah.
D: I don’t, I don’t, I get requests to link with people all over the place. You know…
E: Yeah.
D: ...they’ll put the link on my site, and I just refuse to do it because I don’t want to be associated with them. But, I know that…
E: Yeah.
D: …they have sites that get tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of hits all the time.
E: Yeah.
D: And I would increase the number of hits that I got…
E: Yeah.
D: …dramatically if I were to do that. But, I just haven’t done that. Maybe I should but…
E: Mm.
D: …but it’s still – It’s, it’s not that, it’s not that well, a, a, a well-viewed site, you know?
E: Yeah. Yeah. But that’s good because I mean, you’ve got a kind of professional kind of a way – You don’t want to associate it with some real crazy, crazy stuff.
D: That’s the truth, that’s the, that’s the whole point.
E: Yeah.
D: So um, anyway. So, let’s see. Where was he now? He’s –
E: That other guy went and sat on the couch. He must of just not been able to do it.
D: Yeah.
E: I don’t know. Or he did what he did. God knows.
D: Well see, even turning it on. What they would’ve had to have done is they would’ve had to have you go over there…
E: Mm.
D: …and you pull up the files and…
E: Mm.
D: …and, at that point, you’re in control, and you can, you can pull up whatever files you want. Then, it doesn’t have to be necessarily what they want to see.
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: Because they’re, they’re depending on you. They don’t know what you’re doing.
E: Yeah. Right.
D: You can just tell them you erased those files.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, supposing that they tell you to erase files. Supposing. Now, this is probably not going to happen because they probably don’t know that that’s a concept.
E: Yeah.
D: If you do, you know, the files are never really erased.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: They’re still there, and you know that they can always be retrieved.
E: Oh well. Which is why my computer will never repaired in a repair shop.
D: Why’s that?
E: Because I don’t want anybody else to, to read them.
D: Well, what you, what you do is you just um – You can, you can save everything on discs. You have, you have a CD writer, don’t you?
E: No.
D: Oh. Never mind. But um, what you want to do is either buy a cheap CD writer – Now, once again, in (censored), who knows, God knows…
E: No I couldn’t.
D: …how much they cost.
E: The concept isn’t there.
D: Yeah. Because here, they’re nothing. And um have Justin put it in. It’ll take all of five minutes.
E: Mm.
D: And then, you just write everything to it. Well, you don’t even need a CD. A DVD.
E: Mm.
D: And you can get, you can get almost your entire contents of your hard drive on one disc.
E: Great.
D: And then, you’ll always have it.
E: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good idea. Justin said if, if it breaks down, he’ll take the hard drive out and keep it in another computer.
D: Yeah. That’s, that’s what people do. Sure. You can do that. Mm hm. You wouldn’t want to do that. What you want to do is just save all this stuff and transfer it over, and then take the hard drive and smash it with a hammer.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: People do that, too.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, this is something that I think about a lot because I have, I’ve got a lot of people’s personal information on my, my computer, you know?
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: And um it, this is a – But, there are programs that wipe off, wipe out information…
E: Mm.
D: …that are, that, that really do wipe out information.
E: Right.
D: There, there are special programs that are just for that. So, that if you want to get, if really want to get rid of stuff and never have it retrieved…
E: Yeah.
D: …this program will write over where it, where it was…
E: Yeah.
D: …fifty times.
E: Okay. Gets it jumbled.
D: Yeah. In other words, it writes over the, writes over the whole hard disk over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, and there’s no possibility, then, of ever retrieving it.
E: Yeah.
D: So.
E: Yeah.
D: Anyway. I’m sorry. I got you off the track here. So, the guy is sitting on the couch.
E: Mm.
D: The other one is threatening.
E: Mm.
D: He’s threatening to smash your face again.
E: Mm.
D: (pause) So, what happens next, then? (pause)
E: I was, I was kind of – I thought I might’ve gone to one of those places, but I can sort of remember being in a white room.
D: Well, you mean he, he gets you up, and you, you were still on the floor, were you, or on the…
E: Yeah.
D: … bed, rather, or - ?
E: I was on the bed.
D: Mm hm. Does he get you up off the bed, or - ?
E: Mm. I think so. Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: But I also remember seeing a short gray person as well.
D: There was a short gray one in the room the whole time?
E: No. But, I think I might’ve – I think I might’ve seen a short gray person somewhere else.
D: Okay so.
E: I think maybe I got taken out of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: I can remember being in a, in a white room, and there’s a gray person there.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think I had to take my clothes off.
D: Um. Okay. Um, did, we’re safe on your calling back, right?
E: Um. Should I ring you back?
D: Well, no. No. No. I mean, I just, I’ve, I’ve lost track of the time again.
E: Yeah. I’ve lost track as well. Maybe I should ring you back.
D: Okay.
E: Can I take a few minutes? I’m going to eat something for low blood sugar.
D: Oh, absolutely. Sure.
E: Okay.
D: Bye, bye. (pause) There we go okay. So, anyway. The next thing you know, you’re onboard this object.
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: There’s a gray guy there…
E: Mm.
D: …telling you to take off your clothes.
E: Yeah.
D: Are you, there, is this a regular – I mean, there’s people around? There’s - ?
E: Um, I didn’t see anyone else. Just the gray guy.
D: Okay. Mm hm. It’s not like in 2001, when everybody in the area was there.
E: No. No.
D: Mm hm.
E: Mm.
D: Are you in a, in a special room for it, or - ?
E: Um. I just had to get on this table. And there was one of those taller guys there too. Probably there. It was just one of those things. The regular things.
D: Is that, that’s where you get your clothes off? On the table, you mean?
E: No. By the wall.
D: I’m sorry. Say that again.
E: Out of room, by the wall.
D: Oh. By the wall. Okay. Mm hm.
E: And then there was a table there.
D: I see.
E: I just got on it. I had to get on it.
D: Mm hm.
E: And there was another little gray guy there as well.
D: Okay.
E: (pause) And they’re doing that thing where like, where they like touch you all over.
D: Yeah. I call that a touch procedure. Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: There’s some property that they have in their fingertips that can, in my, in my opinion, rather than my evidence…
E: Yeah.
D: …that can measure or tell them something about…
E: Mm.
D: …the nervous system.
E: Okay. Yeah. (pause)
D: Um Emma?
E: Yeah? Should I ring you back?
D: You’re going to have to because…
E: Yeah.
D: ...you’re, you’re beginning to sound like this.
E: Oh, okay. Yeah. I’ll ring you back.
D: Okay. (pause) Okay. Hello?
E: Dave, is this better?
D: Um. Say it again.
E: Is that better? (laughs)
D: Well, let’s try it and see. (pause) Hello?
E: Hi.
D: You there?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. There we go.
E: Yep.
D: So, you, you’re, you lay down on the table.
E: Mm. Mm hm. I think that um taller person was um showing me images of things that I could see, and I saw this image of a woman.
D: You mean this is after the examination?
E: Yeah. Yeah. I think about.
D: Okay.
E: I think I could see – Your voice is breaking up now.
D: You. Should we do it again?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. Bye. (pause) Now, okay. Let’s see if this will work.
E: Yeah. Is that better?
D: It’s just going to have to do.
E: Yeah. (laughs)
D: So, is he, is he staring at you, or are you just sort of seeing images on a - ?
E: Um, I think he was probably staring. I don’t think it was a screen or anything.
D: Okay. What kind of images are you seeing?
E: He’s showing me this woman that I’ve seen before. And she kind of looks a little bit like me…
D: Mm hm.
E: …but she’s a hybrid.
D: Yeah. You’ve mentioned her before. Mm hm.
E: Yeah. He’s also like showing me nat…nature scene sort of thing.
D: Shows you nature being what?
E: He just showed me like this kind of nature scene.
D: Oh. A nature scene. Mm hm.
E: And like the sea, like a seabed and that.
D: And, and a what again?
E: It was like the ocean floor.
D: Oh, the ocean floor. Mm hm. (pause) Are these nice scenes?
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: He was saying that they’ve got me in a safe place.
D: They have you in a safe place?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: Um. (pause) He was uh, he was saying that like the things that I’m doing are like endangering that.
D: Mm hm.
E: And it was like endangering other people as well. But, it’s like I’m endangering the hybrids as well. Like, I don’t really want to do that.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s like I’d be endangering that woman. (pause)
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s showing me children, I think. Better children or something.
D: I’m sorry. You’re going to have to repeat that sentence again, too.
E: Um. It’s like their children are like better children.
D: Their children are better children?
E: Yeah. (pause)
D: Okay.
E: It’s like every, everything’s got this kind of like, like a kind of aura around it, or like a kind of a specialness about it or something.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, it’s better. Like, it’s got to be protected. Do you think that they’ve been intimidating women all over the world, or just in safe places?
D: I really do think that this is a – Well, it’s throughout the United States…
E: Right.
D: …it’s throughout North America, it’s throughout Latin America, it’s throughout Europe.
E: Yeah. Yeah. It obviously is.
D: It was in South Africa (laughs).
E: Yeah (laughs)
D: Um. And uh, because they didn’t know that you were going to be – Well, maybe they did. But um. Uh. But uh. See, I don’t know what’s happening in, in Indonesia, for example and.
E: Yeah.
D: And I don’t know what’s happening in, in Burma, or, or Thailand, or whatever.
E: Yeah.
D: So. But, my guess is that it’s probably a world-wide phenomenon.
E: Yeah.
D: And if it’s in, if it’s in all through the western hemisphere…
E: Yeah.
D: ...then it’s got to be all through all the other hemispheres. (laughs)
E: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting.
D: This is a global phenomenon of enormous proportion.
E: Yeah.
D: And. Which is why it’s so amazing that the slightest, tiniest, little leak, which really means nothing, draws so much energy and so much attention from them.
E: Yeah. (inaudible)
D: They must have some huge vulnerability.
E: Yeah. They must do, eh?
D: There, there must be some, something that they are afraid of…
E: Yeah.
D: …and I’ll be damned if I know what it is. I…
E: Yeah.
D: …I just, I just don’t.
E: Mm. If we had knowledge, we could organize against them or something.
D: Yeah, and. But, but we don’t have knowledge.
E: I know.
D: And the reason we don’t have knowledge is because they’re almost invulnerable. (laughs)
E: Yeah. (laughs) God.
D: So. Anyway, everything sort of has this specialness around it and, and it has to be protected…
E: Mm.
D: …and you’d be endangering these things by your course of action.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, he’s a, he’s a gray guy.
E: Yeah.
D: So, he does not have the range of human emotions that hybrids do.
E: No.
D: So, he’s much more reasonable and rational.
E: Yeah. That’s true. And he is.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. He’s not threatening to smash my face in.
D: He’s what?
E: He’s not threatening to like, you know, smash my face in or –
D: Nope. He’s not doing that. That’s not part of his makeup. That’s not his thing. That’s. He doesn’t do that sort of thing. I don’t think. I mean I don’t know what’s going to come out of his mouth next, but…
E: (laughs).
D: So, what else does he say, then?
E: Um. He was saying that I shouldn’t communicate with you.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um. It was like it was detrimental. Uh, it’s not good. (pause) Um. He’s also showing me an image of my apartment building.
D: Mm hm.
E: And uh, there was like a little boy. He’s getting in the car pool in the car park area.
D: Yeah.
E: And he’s like saying – It’s kind of like he wants it to be safe for them. It’s almost like they want where I live to be safe so that they could even like bring the children. The children would be safe there, but like I’m not. It’s like endangering the safety of it all.
D: I see.
E: It’s kind of like, like the picture – When he showed me the picture of the little boy walking across the car park, it was like it was really nice and safe, and that it was just really good that it had such a nice, safe place that the little kid could walk there. And like I’m ruining it.
D: Hm.
E: What I’m doing.
D: That’s extremely interesting…
E: Hm.
D: …because he’s using the whole, the image of the whole – I’ve never heard that before, and it…
E: Yeah.
D: …goes along sort of with,
E: Mm.
D: “Pay no attention to the people who’ll be moving in.”
E: Yeah. It does.
D: And maybe even Nick, for all we know.
E: Oh, God. Next time, I really need to get a picture of poor Nick. I haven’t seen him.
D: (laughs)
E: Oh my God.
D: But, they might have blocked out, I mean, your apartment building. It could be that almost everybody living there, regardless of whether they’re from Pakistan or whatever it is, that’s…
E: Mm.
D: …that they might all be…
E: Abductees.
D: …people. Yeah. People involved in the abduction phenomenon who will in fact provide a safe environment for…
E: Yeah.
D: …for children. Mm.
E: Yeah.
D: Maybe that’s why they were so interested in that school down the block. Who knows?
E: You know, it’s only a few meters away from like the primary school. (laughs) Oh my God. It’s almost been to choose, choose a really safe place in (censored), actually. It’s like this really short cul-de-sac, and it’s like a really nice area that so, sort of apart from the teenaged crime wave. But, I mean, apart from that, it’s really safe.
D: Yeah.
E: And there’s a school (laughs) down the road.
D: Very interesting. Very, very interesting.
E: Mm.
D: Gosh. Well, okay.
E: Mm. God.
D: Um. Okay. There you go. I was hearing some very bad static, suddenly.
E: Yeah.
D: So, they want to, they want to perhaps bring children there and, and make this into a safe environment, and you’re, you’re endangering that.
E: Mm.
D: Although, how you could be endangering that is still anybody’s guess…
E: Yeah.
D: …because they can pretty much do what they want anyway. And…
E: Yeah.
D: …and they might’ve made it so that you would want to live there…
E: Yeah.
D: …and they might make it so that you might suddenly take it upon yourself that you want to move away.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, how do they, they.
E: Yeah.
D: Your being there is, is not necessarily, and what’s that got to do with, with the story of your life? You know.
E: Yeah. It makes no sense.
D: It’s such an odd stretch.
E: I mean, nobody’s going to know my address… (laughs)
D: Right.
E: …while I’m there.
D: Maybe they don’t understand that. That, that you’re doing this anonymously, that it’s not, that nobody knows who you are.
E: Yeah.
D: You know, what I think you should do…
E: Yeah.
D: …is write on, the word anonymous…
E: Yeah.
D: …and put it on your computer, or on your monitor, or something like that so when they come in…
E: Yeah.
D: …they’ll look at that. They’ll say, “What is, what is this about?” and you say, “Look at -”
E: Yeah.
D: You can tell them, “Nobody knows who I am or what my name is.”
E: Yeah.
D: “They can’t trace anything here.”
E: Yeah. Maybe I should do that or even like put it on my, my wrist or something if they ask about it.
D: Right. Sure. Something like to, so that you can remind yourself, so to speak, or they can remind you that…
E: Yeah.
D: …they’re, they’re missing an ingredient here.
E: Yeah.
D: You’re not publicizing…
E: Yeah.
D: …you. You’re publicizing their, something else. They’re, you’re publicizing a person of which nobody knows it’s you.
E: Yeah. Like, the area will still be safe.
D: Or that it’s even (censored).
E: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
D: You’re protecting them. That’s the, that’s the tact you have to take.
E: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I’ll do that. I’ll put it on tonight.
D: Yeah. Why not? It couldn’t hurt.
E: Yeah. Mm.
D: So, so he’s talking about this sort of safe haven.
E: Mm.
D: What else does he go on to say, then?
E: Um. I think that’s, that’s kind of pretty much it.
D: Oh. Okay. So, do you, do you sort of agree with him? “Yes, this is good,” and?
E: Um. I kind of felt that, “Yeah. It should be a safe, safe place for that child.” It was a very powerful image.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um, I didn’t really – I was kind of flustered, really. Yeah.
D: You, you were kind of?
E: I kind of agreed, I suppose. Yeah.
D: Well, of course you’re going to agree. I mean…
E: Yeah.
D: …they don’t make it so that you can – This, this is not a debate.
E: Oh.
D: This is information into your brain. Period. There is no – You’re not going to be, you know, taking issue with it.
E: Right.
D: That’s not going to happen.
E: No. Oh God.
D: They’re the, they’re the throwers, and you’re the, you’re the catcher. So, what happens next, then?
E: Um. I think they did something gynecological.
D: You mean after this? Hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, after you saw these images, did he start another sexual arousal business and all that?
E: Um, I’m not sure, but I can remember feeling pain.
D: Oh, okay. So, then he probably didn’t.
E: Yeah. I’m not sure what he was doing. The little, little gray guys were there as well. (pause)
D: Mm hm.
E: Whatever they did, it didn’t take very long.
D: Okay. (pause) That’s about everything. They’re still using you for the same old stuff that they’ve been doing for years, and years, and years, and years.
E: Yeah. I just have this kind of memory of seeing that, that hybrid guy that I know…
D: Mm hm.
E: …being in the room. It’s like I’m having to put my clothes on again.
D: Okay.
E: I can remember him being back in my apartment. That other guy was gone, the one that’s with him all the time. (pause)
D: Mm hm. Hang on one second here. Okay. Sorry about that. So, the other guy was?
E: He wasn’t there when we got back.
D: Was your computer on or off, then, when you got back?
E: Um. I think the monitor was on. My computer was off. I don’t know.
D: The monitor was on, but the computer was off?
E: Yeah.
D: They never got the damn thing on.
E: No.
D: I mean, you can check it. You could probably take a look at the usage and what time and just to.
E: Oh Yeah. I’ll do that.
D: Hm. So, does he tell you to get back into bed, or - ?
E: Um, yeah.
D: You said that you had the usual pain.
E: Yeah.
D: In other words, did he do anything sexual at that time or…
E: Um.
D: …or was this the pain from the gynecological procedure?
E: Um. No. I didn’t have the pain when I came back.
D: Oh, hm. so, does that mean.
E: Yeah. I think he was just doing the same old stuff.
D: I’m sorry?
E: I remember, I can remember sort of like threatening again and all that. Oh God.
D: Emma, I still can’t hear you, unfortunately.
E: Um. It was like, it was all like threatening me and that when I got back in the bed.
D: You mean he was still threatening you again?
E: Yeah.
D: He starts up again?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: It’s hard to understand why they can’t use the computer, eh?
D: He couldn’t even push the button to put it on.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, he tried.
E: Um. I also think he was doing this banging on the computer because I heard this banging sound.
D: (laughs) Strangest damn thing. But, then again, the other one was fascinated by the stereo, too. I mean, they just don’t know.
E: Yeah.
D: They don’t know sort of low-tech stuff, I guess.
E: Yeah. God.
D: I mean, it’s, I – You know, it tells you something about their society. Their society is probably.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s so biologically high-tech, and high-tech in other ways…
E: Yeah.
D: …that our technology – It’s not necessarily low-tech…
E: Mm.
D: …or high-tech. It’s just different-tech.
E: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. I wonder if they have music.
D: My guess is they do not.
E: Yeah.
D: I don’t know. But, I know that aliens probably do not because…
E: Yeah.
D: …I don’t think that they have the range of emotions that will deal with music or art.
E: Yeah.
D: And we’ve never, never heard any music, and they’ve never expressed any interest in music…
E: Yeah.
D: …that I know of. Now but, my, my, my knowledge is pretty small, so I don’t, I don’t know. But.
E: Hm. God.
D: Well, still, I, I mean you know a lot more about it than I do. Believe it, believe it or not, you do, obviously.
E: That’s kind of weird, eh? That you kind of know, and then you don’t know anything. (laughs) And then you. Oh God.
D: Well, you know what they’re like on one level, and other people know what they’re like on sort of little, slightly different levels, and...
E: Mm.
D: …you know? And so, you put it all together and you put the pieces together and…
E: Yeah.
D: …and each person has this sort of large piece, in a sense.
E: Yeah.
D: And the question is, you know, how big is the puzzle?
E: Mm.
D: How many pieces do you really need? And I used to tell people that, and I think it’s true, that we’ve put most of the pieces of the puzzle together. There are still pieces that are missing, but we can tell what the picture is. We know what it is now, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: And um. But, there are still pieces missing. And, and every once in a while, you get these, you know, this, this sort of sense of, “Oh. Now I understand. Now I know what this about. Now I know what this is.” And that sort, that sort of the sense that you’re giving me in this situation of, of having this safe haven where you can have – It’s almost like a little colony of, of people living with hybrids, in a sense…
E: Yeah.
D: …or a, or a place for hybrids to come. A safe place…
E: Yeah.
D: …for them to be. Maybe that home that you go to would be another one, or that apartment building, or something like that, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: That other, that office building or whatever.
E: Yeah.
D: Whether it’s staking areas so that they can operate safely and still be here, and don’t have to worry about…
E: Yeah.
D: …neighbors and that sort of stuff.
E: Yeah. Ever since Matt told me about that guy parking his car in his car park, he’s never parked there again. So, they’ve lost the car park by um by that…
D: Hm.
E: …which they would’ve had.
D: Wait. Explain. How does that work now?
E: I’m sorry. You know that Matt said that, that the guy he used to see visiting me…
D: Yeah.
E: …all the time used to park his white car in his car park?
D: Right.
E: And since Matt told me, really, the guy has stopped coming around, and the white car doesn’t come and park in his car park anymore. Because now, I’m looking for it, and it’s no longer in his space.
D: Never there anymore.
E: Yeah.
D: But, the car park is still.
E: Mm.
D: The space is still there. It’s empty.
E: Mm.
D: Okay. So. Mm hm. Yeah, that’s interesting. Even that, you know they? The white car. They don’t, they want to keep that secret. God. Well, how does this thing end, then? How does – I mean, he, he starts threatening you again, gets you back into bed.
E: I mean, there was another episode, and then they left. It could have been then.
D: You mean another sexual episode?
E: Mm.Yeah. I think so.
D: Well, if you happen to have that pair of knickers.
E: Yeah.
D: Put the two of them, because it’s two different guys.
E: Yeah.
D: In a bag, and send them out with whatever else you want to send out. I would prefer you just to send them out. Just stick them in an envelope, send them out as soon as you possibly can first thing in the morning.
E: Yeah.
D: Alone, without anything and just…
E: Right.
D: ...send them to me, and,
E: Right.
D: …and don’t give it another thought.
E: Okay. Yeah.
D: And you will never even remember doing it afterwards. It will never even occur to you to remember doing it afterwards. It will never, ever go back into your mind. Just do it. In fact, I will send you an address to send – Don’t send it to me.
E: Right.
D: I’ll send you an address to send it to in a few minutes.
E: Okay.
D: And it will not be to me.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: So, it’ll be to somebody else.
E: Yeah.
D: Is that okay?
E: Yep.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Emma, I’m going to count from five to one. Bring you out of this. It’s getting a little bit late here. It’s about 1:30.
E: Yeah.
D: And um.
E: Mm.
D: And then we can talk about your options a little bit.
E: I just sort of felt really like I had to go and lie down on my bed.
D: Mm hm.
E: And um. I’ve been sending you those e-mails about what happened. You know, what we just looked at, and I felt really it was really wrong to tell you about it. Really scared.
D: Right. Yeah. I’m sure.
E: I was going to go lie down.
D: So, at 4 o’clock, you, you sort of get tired.
E: Mm, I think it was more like that heavy feeling.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, I just had to go and lie on my bed. Yeah. Hm.
D: Do you – I don’t know. Are we coming up to a point where you have to give me a call back? One of these –
E: Um. I think I have to call you back in about three quarters of an hour.
D: Oh, okay. I lost track a little bit.
E: Actually, would it be okay if I took a little break now?
D: Absolutely.
E: Yeah? Okay. Can I ring you in about five minutes?
D: Uh, make it six because I’ve got to go to the bathroom.
E: Okay.
D: Bye, bye.
BEGINNING SECOND FILE
D: Okay. So um, you were working at the computer, I guess or…
E: Um.
D: …sort of whatever you were doing there. I can’t remember where we were.
E: It was on the, it was the 18th of –
D: Yeah. Before you went, before got that heavy feeling.
E: Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I just – Yeah. I logged off the computer, and then I went and laid in my bed.
D: So, the computer was off?
E: Yeah.
D: And um. Okay. You had been working on sort of how things are going to – Well, this was just yesterday, I guess, until you’re – Or, maybe it was just tomorrow. I’m never sure.
E: Just keep saying it.
D: (laughs) Yeah.
E: (laughs)
D: (laughs) Um.
E: That was today for you I mean thankful that.
D: Right. Um. So uh. You uh, were working on the placement of things, or that sort of stuff, or?
E: No. I was just sending you e-mails about what I could remember about –
D: Oh. So, you weren’t actually working on the website, then?
E: No.
D: On the material? Okay.
E: No.
D: Mm hm.
E: I just kept remembering about the burning smell, and this, that, and the other. “Oh, yeah.”
D: Yeah.
E: It was, “Oh, yeah.”
D: Well, I do think that the best thing is just to, to send all the stuff that you possibly can. And you can still work on it, but at least we’ll have copies of it. So, if they decide that they want to take an axe to your computer…
E: Yeah. I know.
D: …then all the stuff will already have been sent. See what I mean?
E: Yeah. Yeah. I know. I mean – Yeah.
D: Yeah. You might even want to think about just doing that tonight. (laughs)
E: (laughs) It’s not typed in.
D: Oh, it’s not typed in? Oh, oh okay. But, but you’ve sent the materials to me. Most of it, anyway, have you not?
E: I’ve sent you a lot, but I haven’t sent you all – Like, I have that whole 2004 thing I did. I haven’t sent you any of that.
D: Oh okay. Yeah.
E: I sent you most of 2005, and I’ve sent you a huge kind of – that lot, that big lot of stuff that I sent you has got a lot of experiences in it, but they’re not, they’re done by feature rather than chronology.
D: Yeah.
E: They’re not so useful.
D: Yeah. Hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, send me whatever is sort of ready to go but not keyed into the, into…
E: Yeah.
D: …the computer yet.
E: Okay.
D: And you can do that as soon as possible. You might want to just…
E: Yeah.
D: …include a, a plastic bag with an item in it.
E: Yeah.
D: The item shall remain nameless.
E: Yeah.
D: Or maybe even a couple of items depending on whatever is going to happen, and has happened, and all the rest of that stuff.
E: Yeah.
D: Um, I would, I would consider that to be a uh, uh something important and something that would help…
E: Yeah.
D: …help me considerably and…
E: Yeah.
D: ...and um the less you know about it, the better.
E: Okay. Yeah.
D: So, you get this heavy feeling. You log off the computer.
E: Mm hm.
D: And. Now, when you say log off the computer, does that mean that the computer is still on? Or does…
E: No.
D: …that mean - ?
E: I turn it off.
D: You turned it off.
E: I turned my monitor off and…
D: Right.
E: …everything.
D: Mm hm. Okay. And you, you, you go to sleep. I mean, at least, you get into bed.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. Emma, are you ready to do this?
E: Um kind of. Yeah. I’m sort of feeling “[shivering],” but yeah. (laughs)
D: (laughs) I’m thinking to myself, “Oh, God. Do I real…Do we want to do this again?” because you know what’s going to happen. They’re going to come back, and they’re going to be pissed, you know?
E: Mm. That actually helps that you say that, you know? (laughs) Because it does – Yeah.
D: (laughs) Well, you just know that these guys they – It’s, it’s like they have time on their hands. There’s, they, they, they don’t, there’s.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s like they’ve got too much idle time or something. It’s like they can focus in on one thing. They don’t have day jobs. It’s all.
E: No.
D: It’s like.
E: I know.
D: They spend all their time doing this sort of stuff, it seems.
E: Yeah.
D: So, anyway. Okay. So, you lay down. Now, when you’re, when you’re on the bed um, do you actually go to sleep, or do you - ?
E: I was asleep for part of the time.
D: Oh. So, you do drift off a little bit?
E: Yeah. I think so.
D: Mm hm. Okay. That means that I take out my little – Oh. I forgot to send you this chart. Gosh. I keep forgetting. I then circle day, bed, sleep.
E: Oh. Is that on your chart?
D: Mm hm. My little, my little form that I have here.
E: Right.
D: Now, if you were just lying there and you, you hadn’t gone to sleep, I’d just circle day, bed.
E: Oh.
D: And if you were at your computer, I’d just circle day.
E: Right. Okay. Cool. That’s absolutely amazing what you’ve done. I know I keep saying it, but every now and then, it hits me. I really. It’s just mind boggling.
D: Well, it’s not. It’s, it’s just. It’s, it’s, well when you see it, you’ll know that the form is kind of screwed up. It’s not quite in chronological order. It’s not quite in – in the order is, is off. And I have, and I keep thinking to myself, “I’ve got to change the order. I’ve got to change the order.” But…
E: Mm.
D: …you’ll see when I, when I.
E: Yeah.
D: If I can remember, I will do it tonight.
E: Okay. (laughs)
D: (laughs) And after this session, if you just want to talk with me for a few more minutes, you’ll force me to go over to the computer and do it while I’m talking to you.
E: (laughs) Okay.
D: (laughs) So um. Anyway. So, you actually do sort of drift off to, to sleep.
E: Mm.
D: Now, are you lying on top of the bed, are you under the covers, or?
E: Mm. I got under the covers.
D: Are you? You’re wearing your regular trousers, or you still have pajamas on, or?
E: I have my trousers and a tee-shirt.
D: Okay. So. I mean in, earlier in the day, did you, did you get outside the house? I mean, did you go anywhere, or - ?
E: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I was all up, and yeah my friend had come over um in the morning. And – Yeah. That’s all.
D: Okay. Now, this is a male friend of yours, or a female friend of yours, or?
E: Yeah. It was just my male friend. He, he knows about – He’s my only friend that I’m actually going to tell about the website “[shivering].”
D: (laughs) Oh. This is not the guy who visits you from time to time and used to live in your, in the flats?
E: No. No. No. Oh no. God, no.
D: Well, is he, is he supportive? Is he?
E: Yeah. Yeah. He’s kind of dumbfounded, but.
D: Well.
E: Yeah.
D: As well he should be, obviously.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: I mean, there would be something wrong with him if he wasn’t, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: Um. I always say that people who just accept this stuff upon first hearing it, there’s something wrong with them. You know there’s…
E: Yeah.
D: …they have no business accepting this upon first hearing it.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So, but um. So, so he’s around for a while.
E: Mm.
D: And um. Now, I’m going to – Okay. He’s, he’s around for a while, and then he leaves about what time, do you think?
E: Um. I think he left sort of – I don’t know – maybe afternoon, 2:30, or something like that. Like, he’s doing some study, and I’m helping him with his assignment. Um.
D: He’s, he’s in a university or a school of some sort?
E: Yeah. He’s doing a university course.
D: Mm hm. Okay. So, how old a guy is he?
E: He’s forty four.
D: Oh okay.
E: Yeah.
D: So.
E: He’s just a friend. He’s not like a boyfriend or anything like that.
D: Yeah.
E: It’s just platonic. But, a good…
D: But he’s.
E: ...just kind of nice friend.
D: But, he’s a guy who – He went back to school after a long layoff. Is that?
E: Yeah. Like, he’s doing business. He’s doing, he’s doing like business study…
D: Mm hm.
E: ...courses. Like. Yeah.
D: So, you’re helping him?
E: Yeah. With the assignments and stuff.
D: With finance and stuff, did you say?
E: He’s with. Just with his assignments.
D: Oh. With his assignments. I’m sorry. I can’t hear…
E: Yeah.
D: … worth a damn, you know. But um.
E: (laughs)
D: So. Well, that’s nice of you to do.
E: Mm. But. Yeah. But, he’s nice, so I’m happy to help so.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: So, uh he leaves around 2:30 or so.
E: Yeah.
D: And, and that’s when you go over to the computer and start doing the e-mails and everything and.
E: Yeah.
D: And then, you say, “No. No. No,” logging off.
E: Yeah.
D: Shut everything down.
E: Yeah.
D: Turn off the monitor.
E: Yeah.
D: Say, “God. I just got to get to sl…I just got to lay down.”
E: Mm. I started to have that feeling when my friend was here. And I was like, “Oh, my God. I don’t want you to leave,” you know? “Something is going to happen.”
D: Oh, no. (laughs) So. Anyway. So, you finally kind of?
E: Yeah.
D: Instead of saying, “I think I’ll go for a walk”.
E: Yeah.
D: Oh wait, you know, um I understand a hundred percent that that thought it never going to cross anybody’s mind in this situation.
E: Yeah.
D: It never has.
E: Oh God. Yeah. That’s true. That’s true.
D: But. So…
E: Yeah.
D: …you get under the covers.
E: Mm.
D: And um you actually do sort of drift off to sleep.
E: Mm.
D: So, you’re sort of sleeping away there, and away in a sense and. Does anything disturb your sleep, or?
E: Mm. Yeah. I got woken up.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um. That guy I know was there again with the other guy.
D: With the, the apprentice?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. The, the third guy wasn’t there?
E: No.
D: Hm. Incidentally, I forgot to ask you, or maybe I – Maybe I did ask you. I don’t know. How, how old was the third guy?
E: Well, I would say he was probably in his thirties.
D: Oh. In his thirties. Okay. Yeah, maybe I did ask you that. So, um. So they wake you up. Now.
E: Yeah.
D: Do they wake you up roughly or…
E: Yeah.
D: …gently?
E: It wasn’t good waking up.
D: Mm hm. Had you been asleep for a long time, or a short time, or?
E: I don’t think I was asleep for very long.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Does he say anything to you?
E: Mm. He’s pulling the covers off.
D: Okay.
E: (pause) I had to sit up. He’s grabbing me by my arm.
D: Mm hm.
E: He pulled me out, out of the bed. I was lying on the floor.
D: Once again, does, does he say anything?
E: No. He’s just like pulling my hair and that.
D: He. I’m sorry. He what?
E: He had me by my hair. He’s taking me across the room. Like, I was at this shelf, and I’ve got photos of people on it…
D: Mm hm.
E: …and he’s like making me look at them.
D: They’ve done this before?
E: Yeah. (pause) He was saying that I was going to hurt all of them.
D: Mm hm.
E: And that other guy was switching on the computer monitor.
D: He was turning it on?
E: Yeah.
D: Mm.
E: Mm. That guy that I know is the same – Because I turned around, and I saw him because I heard him doing it. And I turned around, and the other guy was like making me look back at the pictures.
D: You mean they, they brought up the file?
E: I’m not quite sure, but I just heard him turning the monitor, the switch.
D: Mm hm.
E: So, I don’t know. But then, the other guy turned my head back. Like, I had to look back at the photos, and my back was –
D: Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. He’s making you look at the photos that’s uh. When you said, “The pictures,” I thought you meant the, the illustrations.
E: Oh, no. The photos. Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: That other guy was behind me by the computer. I’m not sure what he was doing.
D: Mm hm.
E: Then he switched the monitor on because I heard it.
D: Right.
E: I was turning around.
D: He switched the monitor on, but I wonder if he switched the computer itself on.
E: Mm. I don’t know.
D: Huh.
E: I didn’t hear the computer go on. I just heard the monitor go on.
D: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
E: Yeah.
D: So, he forced you to look at all these photos.
E: Yeah. They were just kind of looking. Like, I turned around, and he was looking at me, sort of saying, you know, like, “Do you want them all to die?” and stuff like that. (laughs) I was like, “[sigh].” He was saying I was going to hurt them all and. Oh God.
D: Mm hm.
E: That, the guy was by the computer.
D: Mm hm.
E: He had his hand out on a, on it, touching it.
D: Touching in the right place? Like, in the turn on button?
E: Um. Actually, it was. I see his hand was going where the turn on button is.
D: Hm.
E: I didn’t really hear it go on, though. (pause) That guy was saying that he was going to like throw me out of the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: But I was just looking at the guy by the computer. My memory is a bit disjointed around that. I’m not quite sure.
D: Well, do you see an image come up on the monitor? I mean, has he actually.
E: Um.
D: I mean, is…
E: No.
D: …Windows coming up?
E: No. I didn’t see that.
D: When Windows comes up, does it make a chiming sound, or a crescendo, or something like that, or?
E: No. But, you can hear the computer go.
D: Hm mm. But, it doesn’t –Windows. You don’t have it so it announces itself, so to speak.
E: No.
D: Okay. (pause) Mm. You ought to have a web camera. (laughs)
E: (laughs) Oh my God.
D: They’d turn it on, and suddenly they’re on, they’re on the internet.
E: (laughs) That’s not a bad idea. What a good idea.
D: That’s actually not a bad idea. That is actually not a bad idea.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, of course, you wouldn’t be on the internet, you’d be on, because yours is dial-up. Damn.
E: Oh. Yeah.
D: See, when, when, when my inter…I have cable, so when my computer goes on, it’s automatically on.
E: Right.
D: You know, it’s automatically there.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm. I wonder if you can program. Oh no, you can’t because you’re on the phone right now.
E: Yeah.
D: I wonder if you can program it so that it would dial up automatically upon turning on.
E: Mm.
D: In other words, you could turn it all off…
E: Mm.
D: …and then keep it off if you don’t want to go on. But.
E: Yeah.
D: But, but it, but that the fault would be when it turns on, it dials.
E: And then, you can stop it dialing…
D: Yeah.
E: …consciously.
D: Right. Yeah. So, when they turn it on, and then there’s a – They would be – If there’s a web camera, then they would be automatically.
E: Web camera.
D: Yeah. See, I could have Beth – I, I, I don’t know how to – I, I don’t know nothing about this stuff.
E: (laughs)
D: But, I do know that people use web cameras all the time, and they’re…
E: Yeah.
D: …on the web.
E: Yeah.
D: That would be interesting. It would play into their weakness, too.
E: Yeah. I could have it directed onto your computer or something. (laughs) But it. You might suddenly see, “Oh?”
D: Right. Well, it could be anywhere, but directed towards the computer. You just see somebody turning it on.
E: Yeah.
D: So, um, anyway so, he’s, he’s still messing with it and, and, meanwhile um, your memory is a little bit disjointed about…
E: Mm.
D: …seeing him there.
E: Mm. (pause) I can remember that other guy pushing me back towards the window and saying he was going to push me out the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um yeah.
D: Yeah. I shouldn’t tell you this, but I will, but. Uh they uh put Beth over towards – Oh she’s got sort of a balcony, I guess, or a rail from the uh …
E: My God.
D: …um, her stair casing. Forced her halfway over, and told her they were going to throw her over the rail.
E: Oh, my God.
D: She continued to do this. This was last week.
E: Oh, my God.
D: Her, actually, this was not last week. This was, was this, this was Wednesday or something like that.
E: Oh, my God. That’s the same.
D: I’m telling you, your, your experiences and her experiences are so similar, it is just beyond imagination.
E: That is incredible. They must, they really do have a um, a plan.
D: Exactly right. It’s like a script.
E: Far out. Wow.
D: Now, she has a family and kids, so they can do more things with that.
E: Yeah.
D: They can put really awful images in her mind.
E: Yeah.
D: Really awful.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: So, anyway, he takes you over towards the window, threatens to throw you out.
E: Yeah. He was pushing me over like so my back was to the window, and he was like going to throw me out of the window.
D: Mm hm.
E: And then, I just thought that he was going to. But, then he was like pulling me by my hair, and he threw me on the ground. On the carpet. (pause)
D: Mm hm. Is he saying anything at this time, or?
E: Mm. Not really.
D: Okay.
E: He’s just like dragging me around the floor. (pause) He like, he was like, he was taking me over to the bed and like throwing me on the, on my bed and that. And that guy was still by the computer because I could see him.
D: Mm hm.
E: He was like, like pressing on my face, and he was –
D: With his hands, or with his?
E: Yeah. His hand. He was like saying like he was going to smash my face in and stuff.
D: So, he says he’s going to scratch your face?
E: That he’s going to like smash my face in.
D: Oh. He’s going to smash your faces in.
E: He was like really pressing on my cheekbones with his fingers and that. I don’t think that guy had the computer on because I, I don’t think he had anything on the thing.
D: Oh. So you, but, he did get it on.
E: He had the monitor on.
D: Oh.
E: I don’t know whether he had it logged on anything.
D: Oh, I see. So, he didn’t, actually.
E: No. I don’t think so. But I think he was like looking around the whole set up.
D: Mm hm.
E: (pause) He was just saying all the same sorts of things again. Like, you’re going to die, and my family are going to die, and kind of images, images, impressions of like (laughs) Beth is going to die and all that kind of stuff.
D: (laughs) Did you get an image of Beth this time?
E: Um. No. But, it’s more like awareness.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s probably because I haven’t seen her.
D: Right.
E: So, there’s nothing – I don’t know, but it’s like an awareness.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. I mean, they must know what she looks like, but if they give me an image of like that I wouldn’t recognize.
D: They do not know what she looks like.
E: Okay.
D: That’s, that’s, that’s just a, that’s, that’s a, that’s a long shot. Let’s put it that way. I mean, there are millions of abductees.
E: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You’re right. Even in (censored). Oh, God. (laughs)
D: (laughs)
E: Yeah, it’s just the same kind of stuff. They’re showing me like images of like lions and that. I think they’ve done that in the past because I’ve often had dreams, really, really terrifying dreams of like lions coming in my flat or something. (laughs)
D: Hm. Okay. Lions? Alright.
E: Yeah. I don’t know why.
D: What, what are the lions doing, if anything?
E: I’m not sure. I just remember the image of it. I think, when I was a kid, I had, I was scared of lions in South Africa and maybe it’s just an old fear…
D: Yeah. It could be.
E: …that they played on.
D: Well, you have to remember that um, that they’ve known you since you were a child, so…
E: Yeah.
D: …they certainly could’ve known of those fears when you were a kid.
E: Yeah. Yeah. (pause) They’re showing me an image of you.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t, I don’t know if this is real, but it, they just like showed an image of you writing something with a pen. But, I don’t know whether that’s me.
D: Mm. Okay. What am I writing on? (pause)
E: Like, like (laughs), like an A4 sized paper.
D: Like, like a what?
E: Like, A4 sized paper.
D: Full-sized paper? Okay.
E: Do you, do you have A4 sized paper in America?
D: A-full? What is?
E: A4. A4.
D: What does that mean?
E: It’s like printer paper sized paper. It’s like the sizing of the, of a page.
D: Is that the page, is that the size that you send me?
E: Yeah.
D: No.
E: Oh.
D: We do not have that size in America.
E: Okay. Because that’s what they were showing me.
D: I see. Our size is eight and a half by eleven inches. No, and your, your, um, the stuff that you send me just barely fits in my file cabinet…
E: Oh.
D: …because file cabinets are not made. That’s a, that’s a. What we have is legal-sized, which is longer than what you send, and then regular sized, which is shorter than what you send.
E: Oh. Okay.
D: Interesting, huh? (laughs)
E: Yeah. (laughs) They must’ve pulled – A lot of the images must be coming out of my own head, and…
D: Yeah.
E: …the paper is…
D: Right.
E: …that’s what paper is.
D: Right.
E: Yeah.
D: Exactly. But, that is not, that is not a paper that you can buy in the United States.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: It’s very interesting.
E: Yeah.
D: A4, huh? I’ve never heard that before.
E: Yeah. It’s sort of the standard, you know? You get A4 pads of paper, A4 prints of paper, A4 plastic files (laughs) and all that.
D: This is the first I’ve ever heard of that. Never heard that.
E: No.
D: Although, I do know that, that everything you’ve sent me is on this paper that’s sort of odd-sized.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: (laughs)
E: I don’t know. I guess. Maybe it’s a (censored) thing. I don’t know.
D: Could be. I don’t know. (laughs) Let me see. I’m looking in here. I’m looking in your book here. I don’t think I have anything from what you sent me. No. Not in this file. I must’ve put it all back. So, I’m writing something and, and uh.
E: Yeah.
D: I have to ask, but what happens to me then? (laughs) (pause)
E: Like, they were sort of saying that I’m like I’m destroying your life or something. Like, I’m going to just destroy your life.
D: Well, that’s already happened.
E: (laughs) Oh no. Oh my God. Yeah.
D: So, I’m going to destroy my life, or they’re going to destroy my life.
E: I’m going to destroy it.
D: Oh. You’re going to destroy it. Oh. Yeah, right. Okay. (laughs) (pause)
E: It’s like he was showing me this image of you as like an innocent, nice person, and I’m going to destroy your life.
D: (laughs) Yeah. They, they, they just pick on, on anything that they think will work. Any, and as, as, as Budd Hopkins was saying – I, I was talking to him the other night. There’s this sort of naiveté, you know this?
E: Mm.
D: Even though they’re so violent and intimidating and, there’s this kind of innocence, in a sense, behind it. This, this lack of understanding. This childlike quality, in a sense…
E: Mm.
D: …you know? So.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, it’s not exactly like the mafia.
E: No. (laughs)
D: They know how to get things done.
E: (laughs) Yes.
D: (laughs)
E: Yeah. God. Yeah.
D: I mean, it’s not like they – You know, the mafia, you know, they, they bust people up, they do this, you know, they, they, they inflict – They’re serious about it.
E: Mm.
D: They do real damage. They don’t spend five years saying they’re going to do it.
E: No. There would be no record.
D: Right. Exactly. (laughs) Well. Anyways. So, so there’s, you’re. It’s all your fault. It, it’s guilt.
E: Mm.
D: You’re, you’re going to be responsible. You’re going to do it all. Now, they’re playing on your higher sensibilities, basically. You certainly wouldn’t want to do that to your friends and your family.
E: Mm. Yeah. He’s asking me things. He’s asking me what I’m going to do next.
D: Mm hm.
E: I don’t know what really – It was like I wasn’t really talking, but it was more that I was not really fully functioning.
D: Yeah.
E: Um. He’s like looking in my eyes. He wanted to know what I was going to do next.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he’s asking me if I want to go away with them. He was saying that they were going to take me away or something.
D: Okay.
E: He’s saying that I might have to go with them. I kind of didn’t want to go.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he’s kind of like trying to be nice. Like, he’s like holding me and stuff.
D: Mr. Nice Guy.
E: Yeah. (pause) It’s almost like it wasn’t my fault that they were going to like take me away or something.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think, I think he was asking if I want to go with him.
D: Do you answer?
E: Um. no, but I think he kind of knew I didn’t want to go.
D: Hm.
E: He was looking in my eyes as well. I think he kind of knew. (pause) He was saying that like I will, will have to say goodbye or something.
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s treating me like I was going to be taken away or something. I think I said that I didn’t want to go.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think he kept on asking me, and then I could kind of talk, and I was saying I don’t want to go.
D: Right, sure.
E: I think he was saying that if I keep doing it then I’ll have to go.
D: Mm hm.
E: I could hear that guy banging something by the computer.
D: Banging something?
E: Yeah. I could hear like a little banging sound. I’m not sure of what he was doing.
D: Maybe he just doesn’t know enough to press the button.
E: Yeah.
D: Did you use your computer since then? I mean, is it okay?
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: Oh, okay. Maybe he’s fixing it for you.
E: (laughs) Yeah. God. (pause) I think he said something to the other guy.
D: Mm hm.
E: That other guy was getting kind of annoyed again.
D: You mean Derrick said something to the apprentice?
E: No. He’s telling me. The apprentice said something to him, and then, and then he was getting kind of annoyed. He’s like pressing on my face again.
D: Hm. So, the apprentice says something and…
E: Mm.
D: …and then he gets annoyed again. Okay. (pause)
E: But I think. He’s just like just doing all this threatening again and all this stuff. (inaudible) The other guy went and sat on the sofa. He gave up on the computer.
D: I’m sorry. Say that again.
E: He left the computer, and he went and sat by the, on the sofa.
D: Mm hm. He never got it on, then.
E: I don’t think so.
D: You know, I just don’t know if it’s a good idea if Justin fixes this logging off business.
E: Oh. It might be quite useful. Yeah.
D: Because if they can’t get it on or figure out how to work it and it logs itself off…
E: Yeah.
D: …it might (laughs) be to your advantage.
E: (laughs) Yeah, it might be like a screen saver.
D: Yeah. Exactly.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s like a screen saver, in a sense.
E: Yeah. Mm.
D: I wonder if Justin can fix it so that it will log off after inactivity of, you know, ten minutes or something like that, or –
E: Yeah. I’ll ask him.
D: Because that’s what you want.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: (long pause) So, he starts with his threats and all that. He changes tact suddenly when the guy…
E: Yeah.
D: …who was at the computer now sitting on the couch has spoken to him. And then, suddenly…
E: Yeah.
D: …he gets all angry again. (pause)
E: Mm. Yeah. He’s saying he doesn’t like me listening to what you say.
D: I’m sorry. He, he what?
E: He doesn’t like me listening to what you say.
D: To what I say?
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: He was just saying that he’s going to smash my face in.
D: Okay. As he did before. Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Hm. I wonder if he – When he was giving you those images, was he kind of looking around at what you were doing recently as well, or?
E: I’m not sure.
D: Well, you’re going to have a respite from me because it’s not going to be another – You know, the next three weeks or so, whatever while…
E: Yeah.
D: …we’re not going to be able to have a session. So…
E: Yeah.
D: …so he’s going to – You’re going to be compliant, so to speak.
E: (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.
D: Unless what they mean by listening is e-mailing.
E: Oh God.
D: I don’t, I don’t know if they know about e-mail.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, they, they do know about it – It depends on the individual hybrid.
E: Right.
D: Beth’s hybrid knows about e-mail…
E: Right.
D: …because she told them.
E: Right. Wow.
D: But um, but I don’t know if yours does. In other words…
E: Mm.
D: …the guy couldn’t turn the computer on…
E: Mm.
D: …and your personal-project hybrid guy didn’t go over there and just turn it on.
E: No. That’s right.
D: Because it only takes a second. And then, he got back to his threats and his carrying on…
E: Yeah.
D: …and um, which meant that he probably didn’t know how to turn it on either so.
E: Yeah.
D: So, therefore, they probably don’t know much about e-mail.
E: Yeah.
D: But, they do know that showing it on the screen is bad. That other people…
E: Yeah.
D: …can see it then, see?
E: Yeah.
D: But, I don’t know if they understand what the internet is.
E: Hm.
D: That they can see it around the world if they want.
E: Yeah. They probably don’t. I don’t know. Yeah. (laughs)
D: Let’s not tell them. (laughs)
E: Oh no, oh God (laughs). Well, it hasn’t sort of fully dawned on me. It’s only just starting to really dawn on me, that other people (laughs) are going to see it. So, maybe they’re following my – It’s pretty lately that it’s – I mean, I’ve obviously known, but it’s –
D: Well, it is, it is sort of – You know, it, it is a little bit of a, of an overwhelming idea until you realize the reality of it, which is…
E: Mm.
D: …not that many people know about this website.
E: (laughs)
D: This is not one of your million-hits-a-day website.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: I’ve got a counter. If you, when you go to my website, you’ll see a counter on it. You can see how many times somebody’s clicked on it…
E: Yes.
D: …in the past six years or whatever it is, and it’s not a heck of a lot. And you’ve got to remember a lot of those clicks are me and Beth.
E: Yeah.
D: So, it’s not a lot.
E: Yeah. Thank God.
D: The reason is because I have almost no links with people.
E: Oh okay.
D: I don’t, I don’t, I, I only have some links uh with um uh some of the major UFO organizations, and that’s all.
E: Yeah.
D: I don’t, I don’t, I get requests to link with people all over the place. You know…
E: Yeah.
D: ...they’ll put the link on my site, and I just refuse to do it because I don’t want to be associated with them. But, I know that…
E: Yeah.
D: …they have sites that get tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of hits all the time.
E: Yeah.
D: And I would increase the number of hits that I got…
E: Yeah.
D: …dramatically if I were to do that. But, I just haven’t done that. Maybe I should but…
E: Mm.
D: …but it’s still – It’s, it’s not that, it’s not that well, a, a, a well-viewed site, you know?
E: Yeah. Yeah. But that’s good because I mean, you’ve got a kind of professional kind of a way – You don’t want to associate it with some real crazy, crazy stuff.
D: That’s the truth, that’s the, that’s the whole point.
E: Yeah.
D: So um, anyway. So, let’s see. Where was he now? He’s –
E: That other guy went and sat on the couch. He must of just not been able to do it.
D: Yeah.
E: I don’t know. Or he did what he did. God knows.
D: Well see, even turning it on. What they would’ve had to have done is they would’ve had to have you go over there…
E: Mm.
D: …and you pull up the files and…
E: Mm.
D: …and, at that point, you’re in control, and you can, you can pull up whatever files you want. Then, it doesn’t have to be necessarily what they want to see.
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: Because they’re, they’re depending on you. They don’t know what you’re doing.
E: Yeah. Right.
D: You can just tell them you erased those files.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, supposing that they tell you to erase files. Supposing. Now, this is probably not going to happen because they probably don’t know that that’s a concept.
E: Yeah.
D: If you do, you know, the files are never really erased.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: They’re still there, and you know that they can always be retrieved.
E: Oh well. Which is why my computer will never repaired in a repair shop.
D: Why’s that?
E: Because I don’t want anybody else to, to read them.
D: Well, what you, what you do is you just um – You can, you can save everything on discs. You have, you have a CD writer, don’t you?
E: No.
D: Oh. Never mind. But um, what you want to do is either buy a cheap CD writer – Now, once again, in (censored), who knows, God knows…
E: No I couldn’t.
D: …how much they cost.
E: The concept isn’t there.
D: Yeah. Because here, they’re nothing. And um have Justin put it in. It’ll take all of five minutes.
E: Mm.
D: And then, you just write everything to it. Well, you don’t even need a CD. A DVD.
E: Mm.
D: And you can get, you can get almost your entire contents of your hard drive on one disc.
E: Great.
D: And then, you’ll always have it.
E: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good idea. Justin said if, if it breaks down, he’ll take the hard drive out and keep it in another computer.
D: Yeah. That’s, that’s what people do. Sure. You can do that. Mm hm. You wouldn’t want to do that. What you want to do is just save all this stuff and transfer it over, and then take the hard drive and smash it with a hammer.
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: People do that, too.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, this is something that I think about a lot because I have, I’ve got a lot of people’s personal information on my, my computer, you know?
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: And um it, this is a – But, there are programs that wipe off, wipe out information…
E: Mm.
D: …that are, that, that really do wipe out information.
E: Right.
D: There, there are special programs that are just for that. So, that if you want to get, if really want to get rid of stuff and never have it retrieved…
E: Yeah.
D: …this program will write over where it, where it was…
E: Yeah.
D: …fifty times.
E: Okay. Gets it jumbled.
D: Yeah. In other words, it writes over the, writes over the whole hard disk over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, and there’s no possibility, then, of ever retrieving it.
E: Yeah.
D: So.
E: Yeah.
D: Anyway. I’m sorry. I got you off the track here. So, the guy is sitting on the couch.
E: Mm.
D: The other one is threatening.
E: Mm.
D: He’s threatening to smash your face again.
E: Mm.
D: (pause) So, what happens next, then? (pause)
E: I was, I was kind of – I thought I might’ve gone to one of those places, but I can sort of remember being in a white room.
D: Well, you mean he, he gets you up, and you, you were still on the floor, were you, or on the…
E: Yeah.
D: … bed, rather, or - ?
E: I was on the bed.
D: Mm hm. Does he get you up off the bed, or - ?
E: Mm. I think so. Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: But I also remember seeing a short gray person as well.
D: There was a short gray one in the room the whole time?
E: No. But, I think I might’ve – I think I might’ve seen a short gray person somewhere else.
D: Okay so.
E: I think maybe I got taken out of the room.
D: Mm hm.
E: I can remember being in a, in a white room, and there’s a gray person there.
D: Mm hm.
E: I think I had to take my clothes off.
D: Um. Okay. Um, did, we’re safe on your calling back, right?
E: Um. Should I ring you back?
D: Well, no. No. No. I mean, I just, I’ve, I’ve lost track of the time again.
E: Yeah. I’ve lost track as well. Maybe I should ring you back.
D: Okay.
E: Can I take a few minutes? I’m going to eat something for low blood sugar.
D: Oh, absolutely. Sure.
E: Okay.
D: Bye, bye. (pause) There we go okay. So, anyway. The next thing you know, you’re onboard this object.
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: There’s a gray guy there…
E: Mm.
D: …telling you to take off your clothes.
E: Yeah.
D: Are you, there, is this a regular – I mean, there’s people around? There’s - ?
E: Um, I didn’t see anyone else. Just the gray guy.
D: Okay. Mm hm. It’s not like in 2001, when everybody in the area was there.
E: No. No.
D: Mm hm.
E: Mm.
D: Are you in a, in a special room for it, or - ?
E: Um. I just had to get on this table. And there was one of those taller guys there too. Probably there. It was just one of those things. The regular things.
D: Is that, that’s where you get your clothes off? On the table, you mean?
E: No. By the wall.
D: I’m sorry. Say that again.
E: Out of room, by the wall.
D: Oh. By the wall. Okay. Mm hm.
E: And then there was a table there.
D: I see.
E: I just got on it. I had to get on it.
D: Mm hm.
E: And there was another little gray guy there as well.
D: Okay.
E: (pause) And they’re doing that thing where like, where they like touch you all over.
D: Yeah. I call that a touch procedure. Yeah.
E: Yeah.
D: There’s some property that they have in their fingertips that can, in my, in my opinion, rather than my evidence…
E: Yeah.
D: …that can measure or tell them something about…
E: Mm.
D: …the nervous system.
E: Okay. Yeah. (pause)
D: Um Emma?
E: Yeah? Should I ring you back?
D: You’re going to have to because…
E: Yeah.
D: ...you’re, you’re beginning to sound like this.
E: Oh, okay. Yeah. I’ll ring you back.
D: Okay. (pause) Okay. Hello?
E: Dave, is this better?
D: Um. Say it again.
E: Is that better? (laughs)
D: Well, let’s try it and see. (pause) Hello?
E: Hi.
D: You there?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. There we go.
E: Yep.
D: So, you, you’re, you lay down on the table.
E: Mm. Mm hm. I think that um taller person was um showing me images of things that I could see, and I saw this image of a woman.
D: You mean this is after the examination?
E: Yeah. Yeah. I think about.
D: Okay.
E: I think I could see – Your voice is breaking up now.
D: You. Should we do it again?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay. Bye. (pause) Now, okay. Let’s see if this will work.
E: Yeah. Is that better?
D: It’s just going to have to do.
E: Yeah. (laughs)
D: So, is he, is he staring at you, or are you just sort of seeing images on a - ?
E: Um, I think he was probably staring. I don’t think it was a screen or anything.
D: Okay. What kind of images are you seeing?
E: He’s showing me this woman that I’ve seen before. And she kind of looks a little bit like me…
D: Mm hm.
E: …but she’s a hybrid.
D: Yeah. You’ve mentioned her before. Mm hm.
E: Yeah. He’s also like showing me nat…nature scene sort of thing.
D: Shows you nature being what?
E: He just showed me like this kind of nature scene.
D: Oh. A nature scene. Mm hm.
E: And like the sea, like a seabed and that.
D: And, and a what again?
E: It was like the ocean floor.
D: Oh, the ocean floor. Mm hm. (pause) Are these nice scenes?
E: Mm. Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: He was saying that they’ve got me in a safe place.
D: They have you in a safe place?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: Um. (pause) He was uh, he was saying that like the things that I’m doing are like endangering that.
D: Mm hm.
E: And it was like endangering other people as well. But, it’s like I’m endangering the hybrids as well. Like, I don’t really want to do that.
D: Mm hm.
E: It’s like I’d be endangering that woman. (pause)
D: Mm hm.
E: He’s showing me children, I think. Better children or something.
D: I’m sorry. You’re going to have to repeat that sentence again, too.
E: Um. It’s like their children are like better children.
D: Their children are better children?
E: Yeah. (pause)
D: Okay.
E: It’s like every, everything’s got this kind of like, like a kind of aura around it, or like a kind of a specialness about it or something.
D: Mm hm.
E: Like, it’s better. Like, it’s got to be protected. Do you think that they’ve been intimidating women all over the world, or just in safe places?
D: I really do think that this is a – Well, it’s throughout the United States…
E: Right.
D: …it’s throughout North America, it’s throughout Latin America, it’s throughout Europe.
E: Yeah. Yeah. It obviously is.
D: It was in South Africa (laughs).
E: Yeah (laughs)
D: Um. And uh, because they didn’t know that you were going to be – Well, maybe they did. But um. Uh. But uh. See, I don’t know what’s happening in, in Indonesia, for example and.
E: Yeah.
D: And I don’t know what’s happening in, in Burma, or, or Thailand, or whatever.
E: Yeah.
D: So. But, my guess is that it’s probably a world-wide phenomenon.
E: Yeah.
D: And if it’s in, if it’s in all through the western hemisphere…
E: Yeah.
D: ...then it’s got to be all through all the other hemispheres. (laughs)
E: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting.
D: This is a global phenomenon of enormous proportion.
E: Yeah.
D: And. Which is why it’s so amazing that the slightest, tiniest, little leak, which really means nothing, draws so much energy and so much attention from them.
E: Yeah. (inaudible)
D: They must have some huge vulnerability.
E: Yeah. They must do, eh?
D: There, there must be some, something that they are afraid of…
E: Yeah.
D: …and I’ll be damned if I know what it is. I…
E: Yeah.
D: …I just, I just don’t.
E: Mm. If we had knowledge, we could organize against them or something.
D: Yeah, and. But, but we don’t have knowledge.
E: I know.
D: And the reason we don’t have knowledge is because they’re almost invulnerable. (laughs)
E: Yeah. (laughs) God.
D: So. Anyway, everything sort of has this specialness around it and, and it has to be protected…
E: Mm.
D: …and you’d be endangering these things by your course of action.
E: Yeah.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Now, he’s a, he’s a gray guy.
E: Yeah.
D: So, he does not have the range of human emotions that hybrids do.
E: No.
D: So, he’s much more reasonable and rational.
E: Yeah. That’s true. And he is.
D: Mm hm.
E: Yeah. He’s not threatening to smash my face in.
D: He’s what?
E: He’s not threatening to like, you know, smash my face in or –
D: Nope. He’s not doing that. That’s not part of his makeup. That’s not his thing. That’s. He doesn’t do that sort of thing. I don’t think. I mean I don’t know what’s going to come out of his mouth next, but…
E: (laughs).
D: So, what else does he say, then?
E: Um. He was saying that I shouldn’t communicate with you.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um. It was like it was detrimental. Uh, it’s not good. (pause) Um. He’s also showing me an image of my apartment building.
D: Mm hm.
E: And uh, there was like a little boy. He’s getting in the car pool in the car park area.
D: Yeah.
E: And he’s like saying – It’s kind of like he wants it to be safe for them. It’s almost like they want where I live to be safe so that they could even like bring the children. The children would be safe there, but like I’m not. It’s like endangering the safety of it all.
D: I see.
E: It’s kind of like, like the picture – When he showed me the picture of the little boy walking across the car park, it was like it was really nice and safe, and that it was just really good that it had such a nice, safe place that the little kid could walk there. And like I’m ruining it.
D: Hm.
E: What I’m doing.
D: That’s extremely interesting…
E: Hm.
D: …because he’s using the whole, the image of the whole – I’ve never heard that before, and it…
E: Yeah.
D: …goes along sort of with,
E: Mm.
D: “Pay no attention to the people who’ll be moving in.”
E: Yeah. It does.
D: And maybe even Nick, for all we know.
E: Oh, God. Next time, I really need to get a picture of poor Nick. I haven’t seen him.
D: (laughs)
E: Oh my God.
D: But, they might have blocked out, I mean, your apartment building. It could be that almost everybody living there, regardless of whether they’re from Pakistan or whatever it is, that’s…
E: Mm.
D: …that they might all be…
E: Abductees.
D: …people. Yeah. People involved in the abduction phenomenon who will in fact provide a safe environment for…
E: Yeah.
D: …for children. Mm.
E: Yeah.
D: Maybe that’s why they were so interested in that school down the block. Who knows?
E: You know, it’s only a few meters away from like the primary school. (laughs) Oh my God. It’s almost been to choose, choose a really safe place in (censored), actually. It’s like this really short cul-de-sac, and it’s like a really nice area that so, sort of apart from the teenaged crime wave. But, I mean, apart from that, it’s really safe.
D: Yeah.
E: And there’s a school (laughs) down the road.
D: Very interesting. Very, very interesting.
E: Mm.
D: Gosh. Well, okay.
E: Mm. God.
D: Um. Okay. There you go. I was hearing some very bad static, suddenly.
E: Yeah.
D: So, they want to, they want to perhaps bring children there and, and make this into a safe environment, and you’re, you’re endangering that.
E: Mm.
D: Although, how you could be endangering that is still anybody’s guess…
E: Yeah.
D: …because they can pretty much do what they want anyway. And…
E: Yeah.
D: …and they might’ve made it so that you would want to live there…
E: Yeah.
D: …and they might make it so that you might suddenly take it upon yourself that you want to move away.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, how do they, they.
E: Yeah.
D: Your being there is, is not necessarily, and what’s that got to do with, with the story of your life? You know.
E: Yeah. It makes no sense.
D: It’s such an odd stretch.
E: I mean, nobody’s going to know my address… (laughs)
D: Right.
E: …while I’m there.
D: Maybe they don’t understand that. That, that you’re doing this anonymously, that it’s not, that nobody knows who you are.
E: Yeah.
D: You know, what I think you should do…
E: Yeah.
D: …is write on, the word anonymous…
E: Yeah.
D: …and put it on your computer, or on your monitor, or something like that so when they come in…
E: Yeah.
D: …they’ll look at that. They’ll say, “What is, what is this about?” and you say, “Look at -”
E: Yeah.
D: You can tell them, “Nobody knows who I am or what my name is.”
E: Yeah.
D: “They can’t trace anything here.”
E: Yeah. Maybe I should do that or even like put it on my, my wrist or something if they ask about it.
D: Right. Sure. Something like to, so that you can remind yourself, so to speak, or they can remind you that…
E: Yeah.
D: …they’re, they’re missing an ingredient here.
E: Yeah.
D: You’re not publicizing…
E: Yeah.
D: …you. You’re publicizing their, something else. They’re, you’re publicizing a person of which nobody knows it’s you.
E: Yeah. Like, the area will still be safe.
D: Or that it’s even (censored).
E: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
D: You’re protecting them. That’s the, that’s the tact you have to take.
E: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I’ll do that. I’ll put it on tonight.
D: Yeah. Why not? It couldn’t hurt.
E: Yeah. Mm.
D: So, so he’s talking about this sort of safe haven.
E: Mm.
D: What else does he go on to say, then?
E: Um. I think that’s, that’s kind of pretty much it.
D: Oh. Okay. So, do you, do you sort of agree with him? “Yes, this is good,” and?
E: Um. I kind of felt that, “Yeah. It should be a safe, safe place for that child.” It was a very powerful image.
D: Mm hm.
E: Um, I didn’t really – I was kind of flustered, really. Yeah.
D: You, you were kind of?
E: I kind of agreed, I suppose. Yeah.
D: Well, of course you’re going to agree. I mean…
E: Yeah.
D: …they don’t make it so that you can – This, this is not a debate.
E: Oh.
D: This is information into your brain. Period. There is no – You’re not going to be, you know, taking issue with it.
E: Right.
D: That’s not going to happen.
E: No. Oh God.
D: They’re the, they’re the throwers, and you’re the, you’re the catcher. So, what happens next, then?
E: Um. I think they did something gynecological.
D: You mean after this? Hm.
E: Yeah.
D: Well, after you saw these images, did he start another sexual arousal business and all that?
E: Um, I’m not sure, but I can remember feeling pain.
D: Oh, okay. So, then he probably didn’t.
E: Yeah. I’m not sure what he was doing. The little, little gray guys were there as well. (pause)
D: Mm hm.
E: Whatever they did, it didn’t take very long.
D: Okay. (pause) That’s about everything. They’re still using you for the same old stuff that they’ve been doing for years, and years, and years, and years.
E: Yeah. I just have this kind of memory of seeing that, that hybrid guy that I know…
D: Mm hm.
E: …being in the room. It’s like I’m having to put my clothes on again.
D: Okay.
E: I can remember him being back in my apartment. That other guy was gone, the one that’s with him all the time. (pause)
D: Mm hm. Hang on one second here. Okay. Sorry about that. So, the other guy was?
E: He wasn’t there when we got back.
D: Was your computer on or off, then, when you got back?
E: Um. I think the monitor was on. My computer was off. I don’t know.
D: The monitor was on, but the computer was off?
E: Yeah.
D: They never got the damn thing on.
E: No.
D: I mean, you can check it. You could probably take a look at the usage and what time and just to.
E: Oh Yeah. I’ll do that.
D: Hm. So, does he tell you to get back into bed, or - ?
E: Um, yeah.
D: You said that you had the usual pain.
E: Yeah.
D: In other words, did he do anything sexual at that time or…
E: Um.
D: …or was this the pain from the gynecological procedure?
E: Um. No. I didn’t have the pain when I came back.
D: Oh, hm. so, does that mean.
E: Yeah. I think he was just doing the same old stuff.
D: I’m sorry?
E: I remember, I can remember sort of like threatening again and all that. Oh God.
D: Emma, I still can’t hear you, unfortunately.
E: Um. It was like, it was all like threatening me and that when I got back in the bed.
D: You mean he was still threatening you again?
E: Yeah.
D: He starts up again?
E: Yeah.
D: Okay.
E: It’s hard to understand why they can’t use the computer, eh?
D: He couldn’t even push the button to put it on.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean, he tried.
E: Um. I also think he was doing this banging on the computer because I heard this banging sound.
D: (laughs) Strangest damn thing. But, then again, the other one was fascinated by the stereo, too. I mean, they just don’t know.
E: Yeah.
D: They don’t know sort of low-tech stuff, I guess.
E: Yeah. God.
D: I mean, it’s, I – You know, it tells you something about their society. Their society is probably.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s so biologically high-tech, and high-tech in other ways…
E: Yeah.
D: …that our technology – It’s not necessarily low-tech…
E: Mm.
D: …or high-tech. It’s just different-tech.
E: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. I wonder if they have music.
D: My guess is they do not.
E: Yeah.
D: I don’t know. But, I know that aliens probably do not because…
E: Yeah.
D: …I don’t think that they have the range of emotions that will deal with music or art.
E: Yeah.
D: And we’ve never, never heard any music, and they’ve never expressed any interest in music…
E: Yeah.
D: …that I know of. Now but, my, my, my knowledge is pretty small, so I don’t, I don’t know. But.
E: Hm. God.
D: Well, still, I, I mean you know a lot more about it than I do. Believe it, believe it or not, you do, obviously.
E: That’s kind of weird, eh? That you kind of know, and then you don’t know anything. (laughs) And then you. Oh God.
D: Well, you know what they’re like on one level, and other people know what they’re like on sort of little, slightly different levels, and...
E: Mm.
D: …you know? And so, you put it all together and you put the pieces together and…
E: Yeah.
D: …and each person has this sort of large piece, in a sense.
E: Yeah.
D: And the question is, you know, how big is the puzzle?
E: Mm.
D: How many pieces do you really need? And I used to tell people that, and I think it’s true, that we’ve put most of the pieces of the puzzle together. There are still pieces that are missing, but we can tell what the picture is. We know what it is now, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: And um. But, there are still pieces missing. And, and every once in a while, you get these, you know, this, this sort of sense of, “Oh. Now I understand. Now I know what this about. Now I know what this is.” And that sort, that sort of the sense that you’re giving me in this situation of, of having this safe haven where you can have – It’s almost like a little colony of, of people living with hybrids, in a sense…
E: Yeah.
D: …or a, or a place for hybrids to come. A safe place…
E: Yeah.
D: …for them to be. Maybe that home that you go to would be another one, or that apartment building, or something like that, you know?
E: Yeah.
D: That other, that office building or whatever.
E: Yeah.
D: Whether it’s staking areas so that they can operate safely and still be here, and don’t have to worry about…
E: Yeah.
D: …neighbors and that sort of stuff.
E: Yeah. Ever since Matt told me about that guy parking his car in his car park, he’s never parked there again. So, they’ve lost the car park by um by that…
D: Hm.
E: …which they would’ve had.
D: Wait. Explain. How does that work now?
E: I’m sorry. You know that Matt said that, that the guy he used to see visiting me…
D: Yeah.
E: …all the time used to park his white car in his car park?
D: Right.
E: And since Matt told me, really, the guy has stopped coming around, and the white car doesn’t come and park in his car park anymore. Because now, I’m looking for it, and it’s no longer in his space.
D: Never there anymore.
E: Yeah.
D: But, the car park is still.
E: Mm.
D: The space is still there. It’s empty.
E: Mm.
D: Okay. So. Mm hm. Yeah, that’s interesting. Even that, you know they? The white car. They don’t, they want to keep that secret. God. Well, how does this thing end, then? How does – I mean, he, he starts threatening you again, gets you back into bed.
E: I mean, there was another episode, and then they left. It could have been then.
D: You mean another sexual episode?
E: Mm.Yeah. I think so.
D: Well, if you happen to have that pair of knickers.
E: Yeah.
D: Put the two of them, because it’s two different guys.
E: Yeah.
D: In a bag, and send them out with whatever else you want to send out. I would prefer you just to send them out. Just stick them in an envelope, send them out as soon as you possibly can first thing in the morning.
E: Yeah.
D: Alone, without anything and just…
E: Right.
D: ...send them to me, and,
E: Right.
D: …and don’t give it another thought.
E: Okay. Yeah.
D: And you will never even remember doing it afterwards. It will never even occur to you to remember doing it afterwards. It will never, ever go back into your mind. Just do it. In fact, I will send you an address to send – Don’t send it to me.
E: Right.
D: I’ll send you an address to send it to in a few minutes.
E: Okay.
D: And it will not be to me.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: So, it’ll be to somebody else.
E: Yeah.
D: Is that okay?
E: Yep.
D: Mm hm. Okay. Emma, I’m going to count from five to one. Bring you out of this. It’s getting a little bit late here. It’s about 1:30.
E: Yeah.
D: And um.
E: Mm.
D: And then we can talk about your options a little bit.
Post Session #20C
E: Okay.
D: Five. I want you to start coming out of this. Four. Kind of coming up to the surface. Getting ready for what’s left of your day. Three. Getting ready to turn on the Television and watch the Olympics.
E: Mm.
D: Two. All the way up. Eyes open and alert. And one. Completely out of, out of this…
E: Mm.
D: …state so to speak.
E: Mm.
D: You’re, not going to talk to me for a while, for a while now.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. There is still email of course.
E: Yeah.
D: But you’ll be in compliance for a while with that.
E: Yeah.
D: Keep writing your daily sort of log of what’s happening because they don’t know you’re doing that.
E: Yeah.
D: That hasn’t come up.
E: No.
D: And um. Write anonymous somewhere…
E: Right.
D: …maybe a couple of places.
E: Okay.
D: Um. This conversation never happened.
E: Right.
D: You’re not thinking about anything relating to clothes at all…
E: Mm.
D: …not tonight. There will be no thought about clothes tonight.
E: Yeah.
D: You haven’t done anything, you’re not going to do anything, everything is fine.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. Tomorrow, however, get up and just grab those knickers, put them in a plastic bag, put them in an envelope, send them out to me and that’s that.
E: Okay
D: Or send them out, not to me, but to an address that I will send to you in a few minutes.
E: Okay.
D: And then um. It will be uh, then you can if you want.
E: Mm.
D: Uh work on sending me as much junk as you can so that basically if they try to shut you down.
E: Mm.
D: It will all be here and we can still sort of do something with it.
E: Okay, yeah. Will do. I’ll do it today. We can do that kind of way of grouping stuff that I thought about.
D: No, no, no, don’t do that. I’ve already got it there’s no sense in doing something you don’t have to do.
E: Okay (laughs).
D: I’ll send it out to Beth.
E: Right.
D: And um. Because it was pretty good it wasn’t bad and I looked at it and I realised yes, you’ve still got the years all here.
E: Yeah. I got it in chronological order because I do agree with you. I, I…
D: Yeah.
E: …like it as well actually.
D: Mm.
E: Yeah.
D: Oh and I don’t know if I’ve been sending you stuff it’s. I’ve been so busy sending, Beth…Beth will send me a new site saying take a look at this and I’ll say “Oh yeah it looks a lot better than the other one” and then I.
E: Oh.
D: I sometimes send them on to you, and then sometimes I don’t because I forget…
E: (laughs)
D: … and this and that then things happen. So I’ll see if I, I’ll check to see what I’ve sent you.
E: Yeah.
D: And uh I’ll send you the address. And I’m going to do that as soon as we hang up.
E: Yeah.
D: I’m not going to wait on this.
E: Fine. Can I just ask you a couple of questions that I have. Like in my conscious state when I said Oh I bet that’s like a personal journey of discovery…
D: Mm hm.
E: I’ve just realised it was from one of those women, the women on the website called it a journey of discovery and it was like totally trying to condense all that. I wonder if I should change what I said.
D: Well, you can just say that, that, something to the point of others have called this a journey of discovery and I found that to be the same with me. But it really is you know. Um it is, it is a chronicle of my life entwined in a sense.
E: Mm.
D: With this phenomenon and…
E: Yeah.
D: …only discovering bits and pieces of it by memory and then sections of it by…
E: Yeah.
D: …by hypnosis. But, but a whole large part of it is still missing.
E: Yeah.
D: So. You know what’s happening but.
E: Yeah.
D: But, but the discovery is not over. I mean you’re still.
E: Right.
D: You’re still investigating, it’s, it’s, it’s an unfinished story in a sense.
E: Yeah.
D: Unfinished journey.
E: Okay. And I think in the acknowledgement page. Do you think it’s okay?
D: Yep, you see, acknowledgements, a preface, a foreword.
E: Mm.
D: Those kinds of things. You usually do those last.
E: Okay.
D: So I’m not worried about any of that stuff.
E: Okay.
D: That, that.
E: Write it down at the end.
D: Right, you can put that stuff together at the end usually, you know, and, and, and then you figure out if things seem clear and all the rest of that stuff.
E: Yeah.
D: Everybody always writes those things last.
E: Yeah.
D: So, I, I wouldn’t be worried too much about this. What I would be worried about is um just getting the stuff sort of up and running. Now the thing is this uh Justin can actually scan in a tremendous amount of stuff. And you can send it just as raw files. You know.
E: Yeah. I know.
D: Without having to key in stuff. But then again you, you don’t want to have stuff that’s written. The stuff that you sent me originally is, you know, is sort of handwritten…
E: Yeah.
D: …and some of it’s typed.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: And that’s. That really is the raw material, that is really truly raw material.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. But, so you want to key in as much as possible. But then again I don’t want you. I mean what’s happening to you is so awful. I’m almost.
E: Mm.
D: What I’m thinking is, maybe we should just put up these early years. Sort of the way you wanted it to be put up.
E: Mm.
D: Then give the thing a rest and then start over again with, with uh 2004 or whatever, you know.
E: Mm. I think I’ll probably just keep going. I just want to get it sort of done.
D: Okay.
E: It’s been going for…
D: Well.
E: …ever.
D: That’s true. It’s taken up a large part of your life. But what you can say is anonymous and coming to the end. Just leave me alone and I’ll get it done and you won’t have to worry about it anymore.
E: Mm.
D: But the key thing is that you’re not endangering them.
E: Right.
D: Nobody knows who you are, nobody knows your name and um and, and it this is, nobody knows what country you live in…
E: Yeah.
D: …and uh nobody knows what street, nobody knows anything.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean not, I mean I, I do obviously.
E: Yeah.
D: And, and Beth knows that you’re in (censored).
E: Right.
D: But that’s all she knows and.
E: Yeah.
D: And but um, but otherwise nobody knows. And there’s nothing to know. I mean you haven’t given out any information.
E: No.
D: And that’s, that’s the key thing you’re not…
E: Budd Hopkins has destroyed that material?
D: Oh yeah no Budd will do it. I told Budd, Budd told me that he has a place where they would shred it for him.
E: Yeah.
D: But it will cost x amount of dollars. I said don’t do that just go over to Staples or around the corner or another store and buy one of those home shredders.
E: Oh.
D: And just shred it at home. It’s probably cheaper than having them do it. So he said oh he’d probably do that.
E: Okay.
D: So but don’t worry he’ll do it.
E: Yeah.
D: And so.
E: Yeah.
D: I have to, I have to talk with him tomorrow anyway and I’ll ask him about it.
E: Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. You know those sketches do you think that “feeling Darus” label should come off the bottom of the sketches or?
D: Yeah I do.
E: Mm.
D: Because you see it on the bottom of every sketch and so um.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s, I’ll ask Beth to remove that if she can.
E: Yeah.
D: Because it, it is uh, the captions just sort of speak for themselves. You know.
E: Yeah. And now my final question (laughs) I have. I was thinking of um. Does it need rewriting? Are you happy with the way it is written or?
D: Well I am. I, I think it’s fine, it’s, I’ve got to systematically take out all of your British spellings.
E: Yeah.
D: So it looks like it’s all American.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. And I’ve changed things like the word passage to hallway.
E: Okay.
D: Because a passage. Unless you use the word passageway which is still a little stilted for American-English.
E: Okay.
D: Everybody uses the word hallway.
E: Okay.
D: And there’s a couple of other things that I’ve done too to make it look like you’re not in (censored) you know.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. Uh. But they’re minor. These are, these are little tweaks. There’s nothing major that I’ve done.
E: Right.
D: Um. And sometimes I’ll shorten a sentence if I think well you’ve just said that and you’re saying it again now so I’ll just take out the second part it makes it flow better.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. But to tell you the truth. Now, now I’m going to be brutally honest with you.
E: Yeah be brutal. (laughs)
D: I, I haven’t had the time to do it. I’ve been so damn busy. I, I just haven’t had the time to, to, to devote to it. That I should be doing.
E: Yeah. Alright.
D: So, I’m relying on, on Beth, on you and what little time I’ve got to sort of get it into shape. And Beth’s pretty good too and…
E: Mm.
D: …and so uh. I think, I think you’ll be pleased…
E: Yeah.
D: …when you see it. Now when you see it, it won’t be on the, you’ll see it before it goes up.
E: Where? Yeah. Yeah. Like that.
D: Oh um.
E: I was thinking of like rewriting it in the groups the way I would picture it. Because I think their groups are too short. Would you agree?
D: Um.
E: The first three you read it in like two seconds and you got it.
D: Yeah well that, that’s why Beth…I mentioned this to Beth that, that, that there should be longer groups. And so we grouped them according to.
E: Yeah.
D: Years. But I think, I’ll, I’ll tell, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll straighten it all out and try to get, get what I’ve done, what Beth’s done to you, and what you’ve done to her and.
E: Because that grouping, that later chronological grouping that I sent you, the last one I sent you.
D: Yeah.
E: I did it all in chronology. But I did it in such a way that it’s all balanced in size and so there’s no groups that have got like one episode.
D: That sounds good.
E: Yeah. So should I resend that to you so that you know which one it is or?
D: Nope. Let’s just leave it the last one you sent to me.
E: (laughs) Oh okay.
D: (laughs)
E: Right.
D: No sense in doing it as long as I’ve got it.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. And Beth has been sort of playing with things too and…
E: Yeah.
D: …how to do this and uh but she’s got a lot of common sense too and…
E: Yeah.
D: …a lot more than I do and so, and she’s really a sort of, she, she says she’s a computer geek and she really is.
E: Yeah.
D: And so she’s really good at this sort of stuff.
E: Oh good. Yeah.
D: Um. Anyway so I wouldn’t worry, but. The key thing is to just get it up there and, and people are interested you know. They might be annoyed that they have to click it more times than not but.
E: Yeah.
D: But we, I, I’ve thought of this and you thought of this and so we won’t be that way,
E: Right.
D: …and it, and it’ll almost certainly turn out to be your way.
E: Right. That’s good.
D: So.
E: Has Beth had any kind of like problems from the, you know, the people, from this side or not?
D: I’m sorry.
E: Has Beth had any kind of like threats herself to deal with or not?
D: Um.
E: Well, should I not ask?
D: The answer is yes.
E: Really?
D: Yes. I’m telling you, your lives are intertwined.
E: That’s so bizarre eh?
D: The answer is yes.
E: Oh my God.
D: They do not like what she is doing, this is wrong, this is bad.
E: Oh my God.
D: (laughs)
E: My God. Is she okay about doing it? I mean I know she’s very strong but?
D: Well she is. All it does is make her mad.
E: Yeah.
D: So. (laughs)
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: And um she’s, she forces herself to do it, just as, just as you’re doing and she. She just brushes it off and she.
E: Yeah.
D: She’s had the same kind of treatment. You know pulling around by the hair, pushing her on the ground.
E: Oh my…
D: And uh. Threatening to kill her, threatening to kill me, threatening to do this or threatening to do that. Threatening her children, threatening her family.
E: Yeah.
D: And then images of horrible sexual things happening to her children and.
E: Oh my God.
D: All sorts of really awful stuff.
E: Mm.
D: And um and, and then of course what happens is just like this happened with you when she’s non-compliant everything stops, so she doesn’t see…
E: Yeah.
D: …the hybrid’s who she’s been helping and all that and.
E: Yeah.
D: And then when she’s in compliance for a while they come around again see.
E: Yeah.
D: Everything is fine now. Then they find out that she’s not in compliance and oh these guys, they like whack her around, and they pull her around, they push her down, sexual stuff too and. And then they threaten her and they threaten me, and they threaten me and they threaten her family and they threaten her children and on and on and it all starts all over again.
E: Yeah. Right. Okay.
D: Yeah. So. And then there’s some stuff I’m leaving out because it hasn’t happened to you and so I don’t want to say anything.
E: No. Yeah, yeah, right.
D: But um, but I’m going to send you that address instantly. (laughs)
E: Yeah.
D: So. Okay Emma. I’m let’s keep uh, keep uh writing me and telling me what’s, what’s up and um.
E: Yeah.
D: And you can erase it from your computer if you want right after because, you know, I’ve, I’ve got a story to hear too and if you ever want any of them…
E: Yeah.
D: …back it’s actually stored on two computers there’s, it’s, it goes to a central mail at my Temple University address which I collect here at my home but also my office computer is well, which nobody, nobody has access to.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So. So it’s stored.
E: Yeah. Okay
D: Okey Dokey.
E: Alright so long.
D: I’ll talk to you later and I’ll send you that stuff tonight.
E: Okay. Thanks. Bye-Bye.
D: Bye-Bye
D: Five. I want you to start coming out of this. Four. Kind of coming up to the surface. Getting ready for what’s left of your day. Three. Getting ready to turn on the Television and watch the Olympics.
E: Mm.
D: Two. All the way up. Eyes open and alert. And one. Completely out of, out of this…
E: Mm.
D: …state so to speak.
E: Mm.
D: You’re, not going to talk to me for a while, for a while now.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. There is still email of course.
E: Yeah.
D: But you’ll be in compliance for a while with that.
E: Yeah.
D: Keep writing your daily sort of log of what’s happening because they don’t know you’re doing that.
E: Yeah.
D: That hasn’t come up.
E: No.
D: And um. Write anonymous somewhere…
E: Right.
D: …maybe a couple of places.
E: Okay.
D: Um. This conversation never happened.
E: Right.
D: You’re not thinking about anything relating to clothes at all…
E: Mm.
D: …not tonight. There will be no thought about clothes tonight.
E: Yeah.
D: You haven’t done anything, you’re not going to do anything, everything is fine.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. Tomorrow, however, get up and just grab those knickers, put them in a plastic bag, put them in an envelope, send them out to me and that’s that.
E: Okay
D: Or send them out, not to me, but to an address that I will send to you in a few minutes.
E: Okay.
D: And then um. It will be uh, then you can if you want.
E: Mm.
D: Uh work on sending me as much junk as you can so that basically if they try to shut you down.
E: Mm.
D: It will all be here and we can still sort of do something with it.
E: Okay, yeah. Will do. I’ll do it today. We can do that kind of way of grouping stuff that I thought about.
D: No, no, no, don’t do that. I’ve already got it there’s no sense in doing something you don’t have to do.
E: Okay (laughs).
D: I’ll send it out to Beth.
E: Right.
D: And um. Because it was pretty good it wasn’t bad and I looked at it and I realised yes, you’ve still got the years all here.
E: Yeah. I got it in chronological order because I do agree with you. I, I…
D: Yeah.
E: …like it as well actually.
D: Mm.
E: Yeah.
D: Oh and I don’t know if I’ve been sending you stuff it’s. I’ve been so busy sending, Beth…Beth will send me a new site saying take a look at this and I’ll say “Oh yeah it looks a lot better than the other one” and then I.
E: Oh.
D: I sometimes send them on to you, and then sometimes I don’t because I forget…
E: (laughs)
D: … and this and that then things happen. So I’ll see if I, I’ll check to see what I’ve sent you.
E: Yeah.
D: And uh I’ll send you the address. And I’m going to do that as soon as we hang up.
E: Yeah.
D: I’m not going to wait on this.
E: Fine. Can I just ask you a couple of questions that I have. Like in my conscious state when I said Oh I bet that’s like a personal journey of discovery…
D: Mm hm.
E: I’ve just realised it was from one of those women, the women on the website called it a journey of discovery and it was like totally trying to condense all that. I wonder if I should change what I said.
D: Well, you can just say that, that, something to the point of others have called this a journey of discovery and I found that to be the same with me. But it really is you know. Um it is, it is a chronicle of my life entwined in a sense.
E: Mm.
D: With this phenomenon and…
E: Yeah.
D: …only discovering bits and pieces of it by memory and then sections of it by…
E: Yeah.
D: …by hypnosis. But, but a whole large part of it is still missing.
E: Yeah.
D: So. You know what’s happening but.
E: Yeah.
D: But, but the discovery is not over. I mean you’re still.
E: Right.
D: You’re still investigating, it’s, it’s, it’s an unfinished story in a sense.
E: Yeah.
D: Unfinished journey.
E: Okay. And I think in the acknowledgement page. Do you think it’s okay?
D: Yep, you see, acknowledgements, a preface, a foreword.
E: Mm.
D: Those kinds of things. You usually do those last.
E: Okay.
D: So I’m not worried about any of that stuff.
E: Okay.
D: That, that.
E: Write it down at the end.
D: Right, you can put that stuff together at the end usually, you know, and, and, and then you figure out if things seem clear and all the rest of that stuff.
E: Yeah.
D: Everybody always writes those things last.
E: Yeah.
D: So, I, I wouldn’t be worried too much about this. What I would be worried about is um just getting the stuff sort of up and running. Now the thing is this uh Justin can actually scan in a tremendous amount of stuff. And you can send it just as raw files. You know.
E: Yeah. I know.
D: Without having to key in stuff. But then again you, you don’t want to have stuff that’s written. The stuff that you sent me originally is, you know, is sort of handwritten…
E: Yeah.
D: …and some of it’s typed.
E: Right. Yeah.
D: And that’s. That really is the raw material, that is really truly raw material.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. But, so you want to key in as much as possible. But then again I don’t want you. I mean what’s happening to you is so awful. I’m almost.
E: Mm.
D: What I’m thinking is, maybe we should just put up these early years. Sort of the way you wanted it to be put up.
E: Mm.
D: Then give the thing a rest and then start over again with, with uh 2004 or whatever, you know.
E: Mm. I think I’ll probably just keep going. I just want to get it sort of done.
D: Okay.
E: It’s been going for…
D: Well.
E: …ever.
D: That’s true. It’s taken up a large part of your life. But what you can say is anonymous and coming to the end. Just leave me alone and I’ll get it done and you won’t have to worry about it anymore.
E: Mm.
D: But the key thing is that you’re not endangering them.
E: Right.
D: Nobody knows who you are, nobody knows your name and um and, and it this is, nobody knows what country you live in…
E: Yeah.
D: …and uh nobody knows what street, nobody knows anything.
E: Yeah.
D: I mean not, I mean I, I do obviously.
E: Yeah.
D: And, and Beth knows that you’re in (censored).
E: Right.
D: But that’s all she knows and.
E: Yeah.
D: And but um, but otherwise nobody knows. And there’s nothing to know. I mean you haven’t given out any information.
E: No.
D: And that’s, that’s the key thing you’re not…
E: Budd Hopkins has destroyed that material?
D: Oh yeah no Budd will do it. I told Budd, Budd told me that he has a place where they would shred it for him.
E: Yeah.
D: But it will cost x amount of dollars. I said don’t do that just go over to Staples or around the corner or another store and buy one of those home shredders.
E: Oh.
D: And just shred it at home. It’s probably cheaper than having them do it. So he said oh he’d probably do that.
E: Okay.
D: So but don’t worry he’ll do it.
E: Yeah.
D: And so.
E: Yeah.
D: I have to, I have to talk with him tomorrow anyway and I’ll ask him about it.
E: Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. You know those sketches do you think that “feeling Darus” label should come off the bottom of the sketches or?
D: Yeah I do.
E: Mm.
D: Because you see it on the bottom of every sketch and so um.
E: Yeah.
D: It’s, I’ll ask Beth to remove that if she can.
E: Yeah.
D: Because it, it is uh, the captions just sort of speak for themselves. You know.
E: Yeah. And now my final question (laughs) I have. I was thinking of um. Does it need rewriting? Are you happy with the way it is written or?
D: Well I am. I, I think it’s fine, it’s, I’ve got to systematically take out all of your British spellings.
E: Yeah.
D: So it looks like it’s all American.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. And I’ve changed things like the word passage to hallway.
E: Okay.
D: Because a passage. Unless you use the word passageway which is still a little stilted for American-English.
E: Okay.
D: Everybody uses the word hallway.
E: Okay.
D: And there’s a couple of other things that I’ve done too to make it look like you’re not in (censored) you know.
E: Yeah.
D: And um. Uh. But they’re minor. These are, these are little tweaks. There’s nothing major that I’ve done.
E: Right.
D: Um. And sometimes I’ll shorten a sentence if I think well you’ve just said that and you’re saying it again now so I’ll just take out the second part it makes it flow better.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. But to tell you the truth. Now, now I’m going to be brutally honest with you.
E: Yeah be brutal. (laughs)
D: I, I haven’t had the time to do it. I’ve been so damn busy. I, I just haven’t had the time to, to, to devote to it. That I should be doing.
E: Yeah. Alright.
D: So, I’m relying on, on Beth, on you and what little time I’ve got to sort of get it into shape. And Beth’s pretty good too and…
E: Mm.
D: …and so uh. I think, I think you’ll be pleased…
E: Yeah.
D: …when you see it. Now when you see it, it won’t be on the, you’ll see it before it goes up.
E: Where? Yeah. Yeah. Like that.
D: Oh um.
E: I was thinking of like rewriting it in the groups the way I would picture it. Because I think their groups are too short. Would you agree?
D: Um.
E: The first three you read it in like two seconds and you got it.
D: Yeah well that, that’s why Beth…I mentioned this to Beth that, that, that there should be longer groups. And so we grouped them according to.
E: Yeah.
D: Years. But I think, I’ll, I’ll tell, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll straighten it all out and try to get, get what I’ve done, what Beth’s done to you, and what you’ve done to her and.
E: Because that grouping, that later chronological grouping that I sent you, the last one I sent you.
D: Yeah.
E: I did it all in chronology. But I did it in such a way that it’s all balanced in size and so there’s no groups that have got like one episode.
D: That sounds good.
E: Yeah. So should I resend that to you so that you know which one it is or?
D: Nope. Let’s just leave it the last one you sent to me.
E: (laughs) Oh okay.
D: (laughs)
E: Right.
D: No sense in doing it as long as I’ve got it.
E: Yeah.
D: Um. And Beth has been sort of playing with things too and…
E: Yeah.
D: …how to do this and uh but she’s got a lot of common sense too and…
E: Yeah.
D: …a lot more than I do and so, and she’s really a sort of, she, she says she’s a computer geek and she really is.
E: Yeah.
D: And so she’s really good at this sort of stuff.
E: Oh good. Yeah.
D: Um. Anyway so I wouldn’t worry, but. The key thing is to just get it up there and, and people are interested you know. They might be annoyed that they have to click it more times than not but.
E: Yeah.
D: But we, I, I’ve thought of this and you thought of this and so we won’t be that way,
E: Right.
D: …and it, and it’ll almost certainly turn out to be your way.
E: Right. That’s good.
D: So.
E: Has Beth had any kind of like problems from the, you know, the people, from this side or not?
D: I’m sorry.
E: Has Beth had any kind of like threats herself to deal with or not?
D: Um.
E: Well, should I not ask?
D: The answer is yes.
E: Really?
D: Yes. I’m telling you, your lives are intertwined.
E: That’s so bizarre eh?
D: The answer is yes.
E: Oh my God.
D: They do not like what she is doing, this is wrong, this is bad.
E: Oh my God.
D: (laughs)
E: My God. Is she okay about doing it? I mean I know she’s very strong but?
D: Well she is. All it does is make her mad.
E: Yeah.
D: So. (laughs)
E: (laughs) Yeah.
D: And um she’s, she forces herself to do it, just as, just as you’re doing and she. She just brushes it off and she.
E: Yeah.
D: She’s had the same kind of treatment. You know pulling around by the hair, pushing her on the ground.
E: Oh my…
D: And uh. Threatening to kill her, threatening to kill me, threatening to do this or threatening to do that. Threatening her children, threatening her family.
E: Yeah.
D: And then images of horrible sexual things happening to her children and.
E: Oh my God.
D: All sorts of really awful stuff.
E: Mm.
D: And um and, and then of course what happens is just like this happened with you when she’s non-compliant everything stops, so she doesn’t see…
E: Yeah.
D: …the hybrid’s who she’s been helping and all that and.
E: Yeah.
D: And then when she’s in compliance for a while they come around again see.
E: Yeah.
D: Everything is fine now. Then they find out that she’s not in compliance and oh these guys, they like whack her around, and they pull her around, they push her down, sexual stuff too and. And then they threaten her and they threaten me, and they threaten me and they threaten her family and they threaten her children and on and on and it all starts all over again.
E: Yeah. Right. Okay.
D: Yeah. So. And then there’s some stuff I’m leaving out because it hasn’t happened to you and so I don’t want to say anything.
E: No. Yeah, yeah, right.
D: But um, but I’m going to send you that address instantly. (laughs)
E: Yeah.
D: So. Okay Emma. I’m let’s keep uh, keep uh writing me and telling me what’s, what’s up and um.
E: Yeah.
D: And you can erase it from your computer if you want right after because, you know, I’ve, I’ve got a story to hear too and if you ever want any of them…
E: Yeah.
D: …back it’s actually stored on two computers there’s, it’s, it goes to a central mail at my Temple University address which I collect here at my home but also my office computer is well, which nobody, nobody has access to.
E: Yeah. Yeah.
D: So. So it’s stored.
E: Yeah. Okay
D: Okey Dokey.
E: Alright so long.
D: I’ll talk to you later and I’ll send you that stuff tonight.
E: Okay. Thanks. Bye-Bye.
D: Bye-Bye
-- End of Recording --